DSP without a still

[fstmatt]

So I need some help resolving a disagreement with one of our partners. My understanding of the licensing process is that we must have our physical site and equipment in place before applying for DSP. In other words, we need to have the building, the still, and major equipment in place first.

My partner wants to avoid purchasing the still for as long as possible, and is trying to find different ways of accomplishing this. I say it can't (or perhaps, shouldn't) be done.

Any insight?

[Jedd Haas]

The TTB says that you must be within 60 days of opening in order to apply for your DSP. While this seems pretty clear indication that your construction and equipment must be close to being ready, I have seen some very loose interpretation of this rule. In fact, I have seen some distilleries obtain their TTB permit over a year in advance of opening. I'm not sure how this is done, but I suspect some clever lawyering is involved. If you don't have a large legal budget, I'd suggest following the rules.

[John D]

Go to Ebay and buy the cheapest 5 gal still you can find. There is no size requirements and you can have a working still for under $150.00. 5 gal beer fermentor, and 10 gal steel cook pot for mash tun. You are ready for under $250.00

Then get a lease that has an out if you do not get your DSP, and maybe reduced rent while you are building out until you get your DSP.

[fstmatt]

Jedd,

Is the TTB position part of a written decision record, or else is there something written down to that effect? I ask because my partner (and myself, honestly) like to see the rule in writting.

Even if we had an infinite legal budget, I don't want to start off relying on the lawyers.

If the DSP is started 60 days from opening, the state license requires a DSP, and state licensing takes 100 days, well I don't see that working out.

Thanks for the information.

[Rickdiculous]

You do not need a still to obtain a DSP. You can apply as a warehouseman and processor and store and bottle and sell etc. Then upgrade your DSP to a distiller in the future when you are ready to distill or can afford the gear for the actual operation. However, buying the 5 gallon gets it done in one shot.

27 CFR 19.72 (a) Establishment. A person who wishes to establish a distilled spirits plant must intend to conduct operations as a distiller, as a warehouseman, or both. A person cannot establish a distilled spirts plant solely for the processing of spirits.

[zrmcm1]

I would also like to see where the TTB says the 60 day window. I talked to them on the phone and was told that I needed to have everything in place before I could apply. Saving 2 months would be great.

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with the TTB. They say that in order to file your DSP you must:

1. Have a premises that can be secured under 27 CFR

2. Have an invoice or purchase order showing all necessary equipment

3. A diagram showing where all equipment will go inside the bonded premises.

So, you don't technically need a still, you just need to have ordered one.

[fstmatt]

That is great and very helpful, thanks. It would still be great to have a written decision record or even better, letter of the law to fall back on. As I understand, the verbal instructions from TTB aren't always consistent. But this is better than nothing!

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with the TTB. They say that in order to file your DSP you must:

1. Have a premises that can be secured under 27 CFR

2. Have an invoice or purchase order showing all necessary equipment

3. A diagram showing where all equipment will go inside the bonded premises.

So, you don't technically need a still, you just need to have ordered one.