TTB Location Question

[joshehayes]

Somewhat related question. I have a strong relationship with a small batch brewery and am looking at starting a DSP next to it as a separate business. Same building, separated by a wall, separate entrance, they have a tap room and I would eventually want my own tasting room (in MN we can only taste as of today so a tasting room is lower on my priority). My understanding is this can be done, however the reason for this location would be to share in the brewers knowledge and equipment. As 2 separate business', can I "rent" his equipment to make the mash in the brewery and then distill it at my location being that it would literally be 20 feet away? Assume everything was accounted for? They would be a vendor of mine. I would buy the grain and other ingredients and store on my side.

Can this work? or too many tangled webs?

Thanks.

[Natrat]

You cannot use the same equipment without alternating the usage. But you can purchase wort or beer made at the brewery, and I don't think they care which person makes it, just which business.

[OldSpye]

You didn't specify the nature of your "strong relationship" with the brewery but depending on the specifics of that relationship, there may be advantages (accounting) to purchasing your wort from them.

[bluestar]

While IN THE PAST they allow some distilleries to do sales (on or off premise consumption) in the general (non-bonded) premise, this has been clarified at all levels of the TTB, and it is NOT allowed. Reclassify, and SEPARATE the area to be used for sales as neither general or bonded premise. Then, from the TTB point of view, it is not part of the distillery. But from your state's point of view it may be part of the overall premises where you are allowed to have retail and tasting and bar service at the distillery (just not in the distillery, by TTB definition).

The key here is physically isolating retails sales and service from manufacturing, to "protect the revenue".

[bluestar]

Somewhat related question. I have a strong relationship with a small batch brewery and am looking at starting a DSP next to it as a separate business. Same building, separated by a wall, separate entrance, they have a tap room and I would eventually want my own tasting room (in MN we can only taste as of today so a tasting room is lower on my priority). My understanding is this can be done, however the reason for this location would be to share in the brewers knowledge and equipment. As 2 separate business', can I "rent" his equipment to make the mash in the brewery and then distill it at my location being that it would literally be 20 feet away? Assume everything was accounted for? They would be a vendor of mine. I would buy the grain and other ingredients and store on my side.

Can this work? or too many tangled webs?

Thanks.

As others said, contract and purchase his wort (to ferment on your site) or purchase his beer. It would be too much trouble to alternate his premises to operate as a distillery

[schnit]

The key here is physically isolating retails sales and service from manufacturing, to "protect the revenue".

Would this need a separate "outside" (in terms of the bonded/general premise) entrance from the distillery? Or can it just be a locked door separating the two?

[OldSpye]

Would this need a separate "outside" (in terms of the bonded/general premise) entrance from the distillery? Or can it just be a locked door separating the two?

I think your local fire codes are going to be the determining factor, here.

[joshehayes]

Buying the wort or beer would be possible and makes sense. I know there are distilleries teaming up with breweries, just wasn't sure how the relationship worked.

Thanks to this forum I recently made some local connections with a distillery who operates in the manner. I'll report back when I learn more from them if others have questions.

The space I am investigating would have separate entrances, tap room for them, tasting room for me, listed as separate businesses, separate rent, etc. We would just be next door to each other in the same building. In MN it is my understanding that with his liquor license he could not sell my product (only beer) and MN doesn't allow on or off sale in distillery tap rooms. So I would be strictly distributing to those who have the proper license to sell spirits (on or off sale) until laws change.

Thanks everyone.

[bluestar]

Would this need a separate "outside" (in terms of the bonded/general premise) entrance from the distillery? Or can it just be a locked door separating the two?

Just a locked door is all. And if it is to general premises, not even a special lock, although your bonded area needs one or an exception. In fact, you can even have to go through the retail space to get to the distillery entrance, and meet the requirement for street access to the distillery, since you control the passage. So, in our case, you enter into retail from street, and then into bonded space from retail, with appropriate locks and security. Although we do have secondary exits for both into a general hallway, that satisfies the fire marshall, etc.

[navenjohnson]

joshehayes, Minnesota just changed the law regarding sampling at your facility. You are now allowed to open a cocktail bar within your distillery and serve food if you want to go that direction. Te law was amended during the last session in March 2014.

[navenjohnson]

i should also say that we in MN are now allowed to serve MORE than the 3/4 oz total that the law stated prior to March 2014 as in an actual cocktail.

Now if we could only get the law to change in favor of off-sales direct from the distillery!

[joshehayes]

Navenjohnson,

Thanks for the updates. I was aware of some of the new legislation in MN, but the liquor related issues seemed to get sliced and diced so many times I wasn't sure where everything landed.

Hoping for good things during the next legislation session - including off-sale.