5.36(d) - list State of Distillation

[wadewood]

It is a TTB requirement that if a whisky is not distilled in State listed on the label, then the actual State of distillation must be listed on label.

​If you are making a product grain to glass, but competing against others that are sourcing in your state but that fail to comply to this law, then they should be reported to the TTB.

[grehorst]

It is a TTB requirement that if a whisky is not distilled in State listed on the label, then the actual State of distillation must be listed on label.

Too broad a statement as there are exceptions... here's what it says;

(d) State of distillation. Except in the case of “light whisky”, “blended light whisky”, “blended whisky”, “a blend of straight whiskies”, or “spirit whisky”, the State of distillation shall be shown on the label of any whisky produced in the United States if the whisky is not distilled in the State given in the address on the brand label. The appropriate TTB officer may, however, require the State of distillation to be shown on the label or he may permit such other labeling as may be necessary to negate any misleading or deceptive impression which might be created as to the actual State of distillation. In the case of “light whisky”, as defined in §5.22((3), the State of distillation shall not appear in any manner on any label, when the appropriate TTB officer finds such State is associated by consumers with an American type whisky, except as a part of a name and address as set forth in paragraph (a) of this section.

[wadewood]

Guy - yes you are correct, but also figured this group would be familiar enough with TTB code that if a gave 5.36(d) in title, they could easily find code. I don't know of anyone making light whiskey or blended light whiskies. High West appropriately labels several of their products as 'Blend of Straight Whiskies'. But overall this law is being ignored by many producers; Templeton is good example of one that violates this code.

I could also name examples of some selling 'blended whiskies' and 'spirit whiskies' that are very misleading as to point of where they were distilled that the TTB should take appropriate action as indicated in code and require State of Distillation to be shown.

[Natrat]

What are we, the Whisky Police?

The TTB can do it's own enforcement. If you don't comply, that's YOUR business. Not mine.

[wadewood]

Natrat - if you are making a Bourbon in your state from grain to glass but a competitor is buying a sourced whiskey and pretending they made in all in house and selling at 1/3 of your price, would you be happy with that? The wholesalers and retailers also are in on it and encouraged the source whiskey company to be deceitful about their product. They also tell their customers it's made in your state (without saying what made means).

You know about the 5.36(d) law and know that this company is in violation of that. You still would not ask the TTB to enforce existing laws?

[Natrat]

Wadewood, my business is making great distillate. If my competitor is selling for a third my price, then they aren't really my competitor. I make a luxury product and they make a volume-discounted product. People can come in and see me making it, and that is my edge. In their state (or not) and in their town. They can't go to Costco and watch them distill Kirkland Signature Bourbon, nor do they want to.

Now, I'm sure it's apparent from my postings that I'm considered a left-wing tree-hugging loonie here in Utah, but personally, I don't want to do anything to swivel the large ungainly head of the TTB in my direction...and as soon as we (the small distilling industry) start to complain about the practices of our large, rich, and unscrupulous bigger brothers and sisters, my feeling is that we will experience (as a whole) not only a humiliating smackdown, but also the discomfort of a weightier gaze from an agency that we all agree largely has it's head up it's butt.

By and large, I find that the consumers who don't care about localism OR good product aren't going to buy what I'm selling anyway, in favor of the cheap "let's get hammered" foil-wrapped fuel ethanol in a plastic bottle. And those that DO care to come in and support me don't buy the stuff you're worried about.

It is hard enough for me to try to navigate the maze of regulations and laws put in place not only by the TTB, but also by my state and municipality. I certainly don't want to go too far in trying to clarify the law while pointing fingers. While many in this industry push for a "craft" or "artisan" definition, I've seen just that kind of thing lead to some major manufacturing difficulties in the province where I grew up, and I'd prefer to let the guild-style advocacy groups call the shots rather than a Mormon bureaucrat who hates my industry with religious fervor (and with that I apologize to all Mormon TTB agents)

I agree with you that it's unscrupulous and misleading labeling, but personally I think it's a misdemeanor on the same scale as marijuana possession. Certainly not worth stirring up the pot. (see what I did there?)

WHEN the TTB gets its enforcement arm running at full tilt (and I hope they add more staff to Formulas and COLAs before that) THEN I am content for them to enforce where they see fit. Hopefully, as a revenue -generating agency, they will go after our less-scrupled older siblings over just such misdemeanors as these in their search for tangible and liquid profit sources.

I hope people don't think that I am against advocacy, legislation change, and lobbying for our industry. I am involved with that kind of thing on a daily basis. I simply want to do this by emphasizing the positive elements of what we do, rather than pointing at the negative.

[wadewood]

Natrat - fair enough, I understand your point of view. I'm just a consumer and as such I hate it when companies try to deceive me.

[wadewood]

Templeton confesses and will change their ways, 1st link is to original story and 2nd link is the follow up:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2014/08/26/templeton-rye-iowa-indiana/14604225

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2014/08/28/templeton-rye-change-labels-clarifies-much-made-iowa/14770045/