larger fermenters than mash-tun/still

[rtshfd]

I'm curious if anyone has any experience with using larger fermenters than their mash-tun and/or still and how it effects their efficiency/workflow. We're looking at a 300 G still/cooker and weighing using 4 separate 300 G fermenters vs 1 large 1200 G setup. The obvious benefit of a larger fermenter is growing capacity when we inevitably...hopefully...add more fermentation space along with a 1200 G beer still. My big concern is how easy/hard is it to service a 1200G tank with a 300 G mash cooker? 4 cooks in a row...also obvious would be a larger mash cooker but something has to give to the pocketbook as we get started...

Thanks for any insight...feel free to put me in my place if i'm overlooking something here.

[RyeWater]

You would definitely need some sort of cooling with a ferm that large or the temp will get away from you is what I have been reading. Also when the fermentation was done would you run it all in one day with 4 runs if so that would be a long day for sure. Having only one ferm would also limit you on the variety of products you could produce whereas having 2-4 gives you a lot of possibilities. Also you have to consider that something could happen to your fermenter that puts it out of commission for a few days or longer and if you only have one ferm, well you're shit out of and luck scrambling for a new one. Last but not least you just look more professional from a customer's standpoint who is taking a tour in my opinion.

I would get two 600 gals, solves most all the problems. keep in mind you cant fill the ferms to the brim (or the still for that matter) because of foaming. Anti-foams knock this down considerably but I am not sure to the extent, someone might be able to give us an answer here. I am also fairly sure if you're trying to achieve certain certifications like kosher antifoams might not be allowed.

I am starting off with a 1000L Still and

2x 2450L Stainless Jacketed CIP Ferms

1x 2000L Mashtank

Again I have no actual experience but I am just finishing up the research phase of this venture and am hoping to lend some help in exchange for all the help I received on this site.

[jeffw]

I would say that trying to use 1 fermenter might be a little bit aggressive. You could double size your fermenter but think about how you plan to use them. I have a double sized fermenter but really wish I had just stuck with the same size as my mash cooker. In the winter when the tap temp is cool I can get to mashes done in a day to fill the fermenter, but in the summer the crash cooling takes a little long and my day becomes too long for a double mash. If you run two shifts this is irrelevant. You can add the next day as your mash hits vorlauf, but make sure you cooling jacket goes low enough to have enough surface area to keep you mash cool between day one and 2. You can drop the temp of your fermentation lower to make sure you don't get too hot before the next mash is added, but again, in the summer this can get painful. This is assuming no chiller. At 300 gallons you might be able to get by with macro bins or something of that nature and save money there. Not sure how your temp control works in the size range. When I started I was using 55 gallon drums which never got too hot, but when I jumped in size I was amazed how the mash would heat up. Mash cookers are not real expensive so you could get a bigger one, but realize you are going to need a pretty big boiler to run a 1200 gallon mash cooker and still (probably at least 40 bhp).

Good luck.

[Bluestone]

Several 300 gallon fermenters seems like the better idea. You can mash on consecutive days (or whatever schedule works for your production needs) and always have one ready to go. Adding multiple mashes to the same fermenter introduces a greater risk of an infection ruining the whole lot. And for no real benefit since you can't put it all in the kettle at once anyway.

[rtshfd]

Thanks for the input so far! The question arose when space was a premium for us and the idea of a smaller footprint for the same fermentation space was almost needed. The space we are nearly settled on is much larger so it's not that big of an issue. I was looking at it from the angle of facilitating future expansion. It seems like multiple smaller tanks is the way to go.

Thank you!

[Silk City Distillers]

What always made sense to me from a workflow perspective was matching your mash tun and fermenters in a 1:1, and sizing your mash tun as a multiple of your still batch size. Our mash tun is sized for a double sized batch.

1000l batch sizes are nice because you can use IBC totes as holding tanks. Should you mash and ferment a double batch, it would be relatively easy to move half the batch to the still, and the remainder into the tote, so you wouldn't be keeping your fermenter in use a day longer than necessary.

[Mash]

We run a 200 gallon cooker, 3- 350 gallon fermenters, 1-550 gallon fermenter and a 200 gallon still. So it takes two runs to empty a tote, but it does give us a lot of flexibility. We have been cooking with a 40 gallon pot and that is a pain. Fermentation is the choke point because we could always do two runs in a day, it just extends the shift. We have not put the 550 into service yet as sales do not dictate it.