coop Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Has any one ever used a Fluoride Salt solution to clean their stills. We have a CIP system and are using Sodium Hydroxide right now and am not sure what the difference is between the two. The fluoride salt solution is used to deep clean concrete. Thanks, Coop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gverseityillery Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hi We also use a caustic soda, rinse, then a citric acid solution to reactivate the copper. Working well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hi We also use a caustic soda, rinse, then a citric acid solution to reactivate the copper. Working well for us. That is what we are doing but i just happen to have 10 gallons of the fluoride salts in liquid form and was thinking about using it up. Do not want to just waste it. Coop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rum Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hi We also use a caustic soda, rinse, then a citric acid solution to reactivate the copper. Working well for us. Are you rinsing after the citric solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denver Distiller Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Don't get that fluoride crap anywhere near your still. Depending on the specific ingredients, it could literally etch your copper. You also don't know if it rinses well. Who knows what would wind up in the product path. Caustic (potassium or sodium hydroxide, or variant thereof), rinse. Acid (citric or phosphoric), rinse. That's all you'll ever need for the interior of your still and condenser. IMHO. If you don't rinse, Rum (the poster), all the things that you acid rinsed off the still will simply dry itself right back on to the still surfaces, making the acid washing a bit pointless. Diversey Lever, Loeffler, or Five Star Chemicals will take you right through the best ways to CIP your equipment and plant. Five Star is better suited for small plants, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rum Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 If you don't rinse, Rum (the poster), all the things that you acid rinsed off the still will simply dry itself right back on to the still surfaces, making the acid washing a bit pointless. I always rinse after the citric. I haven't been rinsing between the caustic and the citric. I was surprised at the statement above that mentioned rinsing between the caustic and the citrus but not after the citrus. Just making sure I'm not missing something basic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denver Distiller Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Ah, got it. Mixing caustic (a base) and acid is very dangerous. Heat is generated that can be explosive. Plus, one chemical can nullify the cleaning action of the other if you mix them together, depending on the makeup of the products you're using. Rinse the caustic first, then use the acid. I should also add that if you have a complex still...lotsa plates or piping, you should be sure to vent all the CO2 if you're distilling wash. And particularly if you have a gassy wash. CO2 will react with caustic, and can pull a vacuum. There's not as much CO2 as there is in closed fermenter, but it's still wise to keep an eye on CO2 level before adding caustic. Usually a good fresh water rinse with open vents before adding the caustic will do the trick. But really, call the people at Five Star Chemicals. They know a heck of a lot more about cleaning regimes than I do. A quick phone call can save you time, $, and keep you safe. No, I'm not a shill for them. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom's Foolery Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I have been using the sodium hydroxide flush followed by a citric acid flush with pretty good results, but I do have few questions: What percent solutions are you using for cleaning? Also, how long do you flush the solution through the still? And, how long do you use your wash before replacing it? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denver Distiller Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 All those questions really depend on the exact brand of chemicals you're using. They all have different amounts/types of additives (sequestrants, surfactants, etc.), so you really need to go with what the manufacturer recommends. ~2% is pretty standard for caustic and acid, but again, check with your chemical company. They'll also help you with proper rinse regimes that'll get all the chemicals out, without wasting water. And personally, I never use water hotter than 120 F (~50 C) for CIP. Hotter water isn't really necessary, and it's safer to use water that won't burn skin in an accident... and cooler water is always better for metals when using chemical cleaners. And make sure any hoses you use are banded. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFry Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Plus, one chemical can nullify the cleaning action of the other if you mix them together, depending on the makeup of the products you're using. Rinse the caustic first, then use the acid. Denver Distiller stated the reason for rinsing well. The acid wash, e.g. citric acid, would at least be partially neutralized by the residual base. I am sure the cost of water for rinsing is far less than the cost of wasted chemicals. Also, how long do you flush the solution through the still? I was told by the folks at Bavarian to wash for 30 minutes with each solution. From experience, it works for me. CFry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom's Foolery Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Great information about keeping the equipment clean. I was wondering about frequency. How often do you clean? For me, I have been doing a water flush after every use and doing a chemical wash after about 6 uses. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rum Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Are you heating the citric solution? If so, to what temperature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Are you heating the citric solution? If so, to what temperature? We rinse after each cleaning of Sodium and each citrus wash.Coop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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