whiskeytango Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Looking for a more environmentally friendly way to cool our still column, We are just running water through it now, seems like a huge wast. We could do a holding take with a small chiller in it but wondering what others are doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absinthe Pete Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Why would you want to cool your column? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskeytango Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 thats just how i roll... Ok so not the column but the main condenser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckadi Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Just my two cents. Comes down to energy cost vs water cost. If the cost to run the chiller is more than the cost of the water going down the drain than I would stick to the cost of the water. To make it more "green' you could have the water drain into an IBC and use it for landscaping or a charity car wash. In my area water is cheap so I'm not using a chiller. I'm sure there are others here who can quote you out a chiller system and help you figure out the running costs. Another tidbit of info: I was able to dramatically reduce my water usage by installing a set of visual "spinning wheel" flow meters on the water feeds to my column condenser and my final condenser, This gave me a great visual indication of my water usage which allowed me to cut my water usage. Basically this allowed me to 'tune' my operation and discover that I was using almost twice as much water as I should of been. I purchased the indicators on Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Just my two cents. Comes down to energy cost vs water cost. If the cost to run the chiller is more than the cost of the water going down the drain than I would stick to the cost of the water. To make it more "green' you could have the water drain into an IBC and use it for landscaping or a charity car wash. In my area water is cheap so I'm not using a chiller. I'm sure there are others here who can quote you out a chiller system and help you figure out the running costs. Another tidbit of info: I was able to dramatically reduce my water usage by installing a set of visual "spinning wheel" flow meters on the water feeds to my column condenser and my final condenser, This gave me a great visual indication of my water usage which allowed me to cut my water usage. Basically this allowed me to 'tune' my operation and discover that I was using almost twice as much water as I should of been. I purchased the indicators on Amazon. Who makes those flow meters? I was just looking for something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3d0g Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Why not capture the condenser runoff in your HLT or cooker for the next run? Recapture the water and some of the energy to heat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckadi Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 "Who makes those flow meters? I was just looking for something like that. " Here's the Dwyer flow indicator on Amazon, they come in larger sizes also http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009P9U6W4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage "Why not capture the condenser runoff in your HLT or cooker for the next run? Recapture the water and some of the energy to heat it." I'm trying to get some of the energy back. Last winter I saved the hot water in an IBC and just let it naturally radiate back into my production area. It was a bit of a logistics hassle so I think this winter I'm going to install a hanging 'Modine' heater and will just run the water through it to recapture some of the heat. I don't use a HLT and the way my production process is it would be more trouble than its worth to try to use it for my cooker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick260z Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 If you're distilling during the winter, I understand you boys in NH get pretty cold. Running your hot waste water through an outdoor radiator type heat exchange with a large fan could pull that heat out quite nicely. You'd be looking at a recirculating pump that can meet the requirement of flow and pressure you demand for your condenser cooling and a small holding tank large enough to contain the water system when the re circulation system is off (to avoid overflow), in addition to the radiator setup. In my experience, your greatest material cost will be in the pump. Should be pretty low energy use with that system, but will take abit of creativity to cobble together the right parts, too. Addition of glycol cooling would probably add a significant energy costs, but allow for summer running. You could even play around with some subterranean heat sinking as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckadi Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I was just thinking of sizing the heater for the appropriate BTU and just let the line water pressure push it through the heater. No pumps or tanks needed. I'm a big fan of KISS, Keep It Simple and Stupid. With a decent hanging fan driven heater I should be able to get a good temp delta change and then the waste water will go down the drain. Later this summer I'm going to see if I can get some fund raisers to do a car wash in my parking lot using captured water from my process (I was thinking of the local college cheerleading squad ). This way I get some green 'cred' and also get a bunch of potential customers while they are waiting for their cars to get done. A Win/Win in my book. Next year I'm thinking of a community 'garden' in my back lot where I donate the water and materials and others do the planting and upkeep. I've thought about experimenting with an underground tank for water storage.......its on my 'to do' list (which seems to be getting larger everyday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeBird Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 "Who makes those flow meters? I was just looking for something like that. " Here's the Dwyer flow indicator on Amazon, they come in larger sizes also http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009P9U6W4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-brass-Rockwell-water-meter-/221797894882?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a42f4ae2 Instead of paying $70 for that, you can get an old water meter on ebay for $30. It has a spinner and hand that give a visual on how much water is going through and also makes it very easy to total up how much water you are using each run/week/month. I have one of these plumbed into my still condenser and another one on my mash tun cooling jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick260z Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 How much cooling water do you end up collecting in a single run? For us we found we were pouring 500 gallons down the drain each run, so collection, cooling and reusing made more sense, considering the water situation here in California. Additionally, our distillery is co-located with a large winery with a huge glycol cooling system. We siphon off 20F glycol to run our little heat exchanger. Works out well enough, a bigger heat exchanger would be better, but we wanted to limit costs for this first build "prototype". I have to remember "KISS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Thermal Consulting Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 If you're distilling during the winter, I understand you boys in NH get pretty cold. Running your hot waste water through an outdoor radiator type heat exchange with a large fan could pull that heat out quite nicely. You'd be looking at a recirculating pump that can meet the requirement of flow and pressure you demand for your condenser cooling and a small holding tank large enough to contain the water system when the re circulation system is off (to avoid overflow), in addition to the radiator setup. In my experience, your greatest material cost will be in the pump. Should be pretty low energy use with that system, but will take abit of creativity to cobble together the right parts, too. Addition of glycol cooling would probably add a significant energy costs, but allow for summer running. You could even play around with some subterranean heat sinking as well... I have supplied this type product in VT and CT along with chillers (for summer use when temp of process fluid cannot be cooled enough) such that they operate from Nov to March without a chiller. Pix on my website. Cost is $2,700 and includes the circulating pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckadi Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 How much cooling water do you end up collecting in a single run? For us we found we were pouring 500 gallons down the drain each run, so collection, cooling and reusing made more sense, considering the water situation here in California. Additionally, our distillery is co-located with a large winery with a huge glycol cooling system. We siphon off 20F glycol to run our little heat exchanger. Works out well enough, a bigger heat exchanger would be better, but we wanted to limit costs for this first build "prototype". I have to remember "KISS" Before I installed the water flow indicators I was using 500+ gallons per run. Now I've got it tuned to less than 300 gallons. But, again, my town water is really cheap, I can understand how a distillery in a water-distressed area would benefit from a glycol chiller system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaalvenn Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Thermal Consulting Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I am quoting a large "adiabatic" cooler to a fairly large distillery in Duluth. He just wants to reduce city water and sewer usage. the adiabatic cooler act like a drycooler in winter and preforms like an evaporative cooler in summer by consuming a little water by having it sprayed onto intake air, reducing temperature of glycol within tubes. A bonus in your are is not only the long winter, but relatively drier summer, spring and fall. He intends to make hot water with the hot glycol when cooling mash with an extra heat exchanger to preheat water for the next mash batch. The glycol is reduced in temperature resulting an offset of the mash cooling load, further quickening the mash cool. Mike Gronski, MG Thermal 770-995-4066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick260z Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I use at peak during a stripping run about 60gph of city water (temp around 55), average I'd say is probably 40gph. Any ideas how many kilowatts a glycol system would consume? My water is free (included in lease) but if the landlord ever decides to install a meter I'd like to know what the better option is. Thanks! Lots more $$ worth of KW then your water system, I'd bet. On a pure water cost to KW cost, I don't believe anywhere outside of bone dry california makes sense. Especially if you are flowing less than 1 gpm. MG, thats some cool stuff, could not find pix on your website though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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