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Hoga Still Heating


kansftb

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Hey all,

I'm currently working with a building owner to map out our space, water and power requirements. We are going to be using a Hoga Alembic still 1000L (264 gallons) and we don't think steam generator will be an option given the space and building layout.

We are exploring other heating elements and wanted to get some expert advice from you fine folks on preferences/ pros-cons of inserted heating coil(s) vs. an industrial hot plate of sorts.

We are also wandering what time of power input would be required for those as well as water usage rates (ie. how much to keep that condenser cool throughout a normal run)?

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex

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Alex,

Email me at paul@distillery-equipment.com and I will help you with your heating system. For a condenser coil like the one for your Hoga, a good rule of thumb is 2 gallons of 55°F water per gallon of mash in your pot. So if your run takes 4hrs you should multiply the gallons of mash in your boiler times 2 then divide that by 4 and then divide that by 60 to get your flow rate in gallons per minute. The ABV of your mash will make a difference as well and there are other factors, but this will give you something close.

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Do you have the Hoga documentation? The last time I talked to Mr. DeCosta he provided me with a relatively detailed setup guide that covered heating and cooling. Go there first.

Going through the paperwork I had, 1000 liter Hoga needs 79kw/279lbs of steam per hour to heat up in 2 hours. We have a 1000 liter from another manufacturer which is steam jacketed, and we have a 15hp boiler paired with it - less than 1 hour heat up time, which is in-line.

This is a tremendous amount of power if you are looking for electrical indirect or immersion heating equivalent.

I would argue that 1000 liters is beyond the capacity for electric heating unless you have heavy industrial power - 480v - especially if you need to run a chiller simultaneously. For a 1 hour heatup, assuming 160kw is required (it would actually be about half of this, with immersion elements), you are talking about more than (the equivalent of) 600 amps on a standard 240v service, just to heat (just an example, this isn't actually possible).

You may find that getting a 480v service into the building as well as procuring a large enough heater, is nearly as expensive as a steam boiler.

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I'm sorry James, your calcs. are wrong for immersion heaters

Alex,

using immersion heaters directly in the mash

44kW will get the 1000 liter still up to operating temp in a little over 2hrs.

44kW at 240vac 3 phase only draws 106 amps.

88kW would bring it up to temp in a little over 1hr and it would only draw 106amps at 480vac 3phase.

44kW single phase 230vac will bring it up to operating temp in a little over 2 hrs and it will draw 191 amps, so all of these are do able.

We have built electric heating systems for several stills over 200 gallons. The price for the heating system and programmable digital controller is way way less than 1/2 the price of a low pressure steam boiler.

The service to my business here is a 800 amp 230vac single phase service and I built a 60hp rotory phase converter to convert 100 amps to 240vac 3 phase for my 3 phase welder. We run mostly single phase welders and equipment. Alex, let me know what voltage and phase that you have available and the capacity in amps of your service and I will let you know if an electrical heating system is doable.

Our heating systems and programmable digital controllers are built using all UL listed parts. The enclosures are NEMA4x listed and we can supply explosion proof enclosures if needed. We can build heating systems and controllers in all voltages 208vac to 600vac in single phase and 3 phase.

I also sell natural gas and propane fired Rite low pressure steam boilers, so if you need a steam boiler let me know and I will send you a quote. 1000 BTUS of boiler output is needed for each gallon of mash to get you to your operating temp in 1 hr. James is correct that a 15hp boiler is what you need.

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Ok this is all super helpful. We'd love do a steam injection setup w/ boiler but our space is limited as its going to be a mixed use space. The owner has the building gutted currently so he is willing to do what we need (ie. 480v) but I may circle back with him on potential space carved out for a boiler.

Appreciate all the input - Paul I'll probably hit you up shortly.

Thanks,

Alex

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So, based on your formula, Southernhighlander. I've got the following:

264 gallon Hoga still

211 gallon actual fill capacity

4 hour run (probably would be longer, but I'll stick with you number)

422 gallons of condensing water

flow rate of 1.76 gallons a minute

That sound correct?

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Yes that is pretty much correct. My Pro series and standard series vessels are designated according the their operating capacity not there total capacity. So you can run 200 gallons of mash in our 200 gallon pro series stills. If it is the case that Hoga designates their equipment according the the total capacity and not the operating capacity then the heat up times would be faster than those given.

Once you reach operating temp you have about a 3 hr run time for 120 proof and up to a 10 hr run time for 190 proof with a vodka column. My steam jacketed stills reach operating temp in as little as 45 minutes and they will do a complete stripping run in 2hrs.

Some of my ancestors were PA Dutch (Deutsch) that came to the eastern face of the Great Smokey Mountains just after the whiskey rebellion. It seems like one of the family names was Bouman. They came with a family name Baumgartner. Have your people been in PA that long?

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