Will there ever be a new mainstream Vodka that can compete?

[LADistiller]

Will there ever be a new mainstream vodka that can compete with the likes of Grey Goose, Stoli, Belvedere, Smirnoff, etc?

Some people say that the initial capital sets them apart from most distilleries trying to create a new big name vodka and the fact that it's too saturated, but in my opinion it's 90% marketing whether you have the capital they have or not. What is your take on this matter?

[whiskeytango]

Yep and it will be made by the same people who have Grey Goose, Stoli, Belvedere, Smirnof they have the product and the budget to market it.

[MDH]

As I have never tried to market Vodka, I cannot comment with any complex insight on this issue. However, it would seem to me that the Vodka market is tired, and ultimately the focus is on mixing the cheapest brands possible. The age of the vodka connoisseur is long over. People are not itching at the bit to try new Vodka brands.

The best way to enter any market is to be different, rather than compete for an established market using the same approach and only differing by brand name. Clayton Christensen's theory of disruptive innovation comes to mind as one example, as Tito's Vodka - which started, like many of us, as a microdistillery. His Vodka had an unassuming, homemade looking label and cost less than $20, a stark contrast to the myriad of brands seeking to claim a stake in Grey Goose's share of the market - but who laughed his way to the bank at the end of it?

[Roger]

There are 3 basic Vodka models :

Craft Vodka brands boils down (no pun intended) to one simple phrase, "where's the column" ? If your column is in your facility, and you do your own fermentation or buy it from a brewery, then you are a craft vodka distiller who's product should realistically demand the price and respect of savy craft engaged consumers.

Mainstream Vodka demand and price points are merely a reflection of the success or failure of each individual marketing budget.

Potemkin Craft Vodka brands that re-bubble previous 190p GNS through 160p stills pretending to make nonexistent head cuts, fall somewhere in between.

[Skaalvenn]

, a stark contrast to the myriad of brands seeking to claim a stake in Grey Goose's share of the market - but who laughed his way to the bank at the end of it?

One thing I don't understand is why every microdistillery wants to be the next "ultra-premium" distillery.

As to the main subject, of course with time there will be a new top dog on the market. Just like all the world's greatest/oldest civilizations and businesses; eventually they topple and someone else takes their place.

[dhdunbar]

How to get in trouble with craft distillers? Talk honestly about vodka. Vodka is colorless, odorless, tasteless, without distinctive character. Vodka with character is an oxymoron. There is nothing a craft distillery can do to make vodka that is really is vodka that a large, industrial distillery cannot do better.

The vodka denotes a product that cannot stand out from any other. Craft in vodka therefore connotes small and local production. If people are willing to pay a price for small and local, then craft vodka will have a market. Grey Goose succeeded by taking the same vodka that sold for $19 a bottle, which was the same vodka, in a different label, that sold for even less than that, and raising the price by $10 a bottle over the premium competitors to $29. Vodka is marketing plain and simple. Grey Goose and Absolute are both losing share. The reasons people buy products changes over time.

I went into a distillery one time, as a tourist. Made no claims about anything. They said taste our vodka. I asked why I would ever want to do that, since it shouldn't have a taste. They said, oh, but we put a little bit of rye whiskey in it. I said don't tell TTB. What they had was probably a blended whiskey. It is the sort of thing that causes craft people to point their nose toward the sky. Who would want to dilute whiskey with NSG? It seems someone wanting to craft vodka with character. So, do it and call it vodka and you are a craft distiller. Do it and call it whiskey and your peddling diluted product. It makes perfect sense to me.

[Roger]

If you think you'd get in trouble talking about Craft Distillers Vodka, that would be tame compared to talking about imported whiskey being diluted with NGS.
Some things are better left alone.

[MDH]

One thing I don't understand is why every microdistillery wants to be the next "ultra-premium" distillery.

As to the main subject, of course with time there will be a new top dog on the market. Just like all the world's greatest/oldest civilizations and businesses; eventually they topple and someone else takes their place.

I can't possibly fathom why either. Especially the glut of new distilleries who seem bent on turning perfectly good fruits into an odorless, colorless spirit. There is so much potential for great brandy out there and it is not being taken advantage of, and when we come to realize there are far more brands of vodka than most consumers or bartenders could possibly think of ways to use, we'll go back and wish we had made something good all that time ago, and were just now pulling the mature product out of the barrel.

[ebstauffer]

>> but in my opinion it's 90% marketing

Only 90%?? ;-)

[Red Mountain Distilling]

P diddy took Ciroc from nothing to 400 million in sales. Its all marketing and creating a following like deep Eddy vodka did in Austin Texas. Music sells products. Well it sounds easy but its about getting out of the Distillery and into what ever niche you think will help you promote your brand. Get ready Arizona, we are next!

[whiskeytango]

There are 3 basic Vodka models :

Craft Vodka brands boils down (no pun intended) to one simple phrase, "where's the column" ? If your column is in your facility, and you do your own fermentation or buy it from a brewery, then you are a craft vodka distiller who's product should realistically demand the price and respect of savy craft engaged consumers.

Mainstream Vodka demand and price points are merely a reflection of the success or failure of each individual marketing budget.

Potemkin Craft Vodka brands that re-bubble previous 190p GNS through 160p stills pretending to make nonexistent head cuts, fall somewhere in between.

You forgot the 5th type, those who buy GNS add local water put into a bottle and have a local made product. Its even better when said distillery has a "master distiller" yet they have no god dam still.

kills me every tim.

[philstill]

This is a great thread with insightful views.

[BRDC]

On 4/11/2016 at 11:57 AM, dhdunbar said:

How to get in trouble with craft distillers? Talk honestly about vodka. Vodka is colorless, odorless, tasteless, without distinctive character. Vodka with character is an oxymoron. There is nothing a craft distillery can do to make vodka that is really is vodka that a large, industrial distillery cannot do better.

The vodka denotes a product that cannot stand out from any other. Craft in vodka therefore connotes small and local production. If people are willing to pay a price for small and local, then craft vodka will have a market. Grey Goose succeeded by taking the same vodka that sold for $19 a bottle, which was the same vodka, in a different label, that sold for even less than that, and raising the price by $10 a bottle over the premium competitors to $29. Vodka is marketing plain and simple. Grey Goose and Absolute are both losing share. The reasons people buy products changes over time.

I went into a distillery one time, as a tourist. Made no claims about anything. They said taste our vodka. I asked why I would ever want to do that, since it shouldn't have a taste. They said, oh, but we put a little bit of rye whiskey in it. I said don't tell TTB. What they had was probably a blended whiskey. It is the sort of thing that causes craft people to point their nose toward the sky. Who would want to dilute whiskey with NSG? It seems someone wanting to craft vodka with character. So, do it and call it vodka and you are a craft distiller. Do it and call it whiskey and your peddling diluted product. It makes perfect sense to me.

If this was really true Ketel One would taste like Dark Eyes...... just saying