Exorbitant cost for upgrading gas line

[vsaks]

We've been looking at suitable sites, and found some sites which are perfect (sprinklered, heavy power, zoned industrial) but don't have a big enough gas line. The existing line to the meter would only support about 400,000 BTU/hr, not enough for a proposed 1.5 M BTU boiler.

When I called PG&E, to check on the property, they told me it could cost $60,000 to upgrade the existing 1/4" 0.25 psi (7" Water) line to the meter. I am just reeling in shock.

Any body else had to upgrade a line ? What did you pay ?

[PeteB]

Not answering your question directly, but have you considered waste oil boilers, used fryer or motor oil?

You need storage tanks and filters but running costs are almost zero.

Or use the gas you have and boost with waste oil when you need it.

[Huffy2k]

I'm in the process of upgrading a 2" line with a 700k btu capacity to a 3" line that will supply my 1mm btu boiler. I'm not seeing anything remotely close to what you are quoting. My only responsibility is excavating and running the line to the main (not cheap), the gas company is replacing the meter and covering the cost of the street excavation.

[vsaks]

So you/your contractor are doing the trenching, and the gas company is covering the line of street excavation ?

I had budgeted upto 10K for gas, are you going over that ?

I'm in the process of upgrading a 2" line with a 700k btu capacity to a 3" line that will supply my 1mm btu boiler. I'm not seeing anything remotely close to what you are quoting. My only responsibility is excavating and running the line to the main (not cheap), the gas company is replacing the meter and covering the cost of the street excavation.

[Huffy2k]

Vsaks, that is correct. No I'm not over your $10k figure. My parameters changed a bit (a bit longer run, more excavation)so I'm waiting on a revised quote but I think I'll be a little over half your number.

[Jedd Haas]

When I called PG&E, to check on the property, they told me it could cost $60,000 to upgrade the existing 1/4" 0.25 psi (7" Water) line to the meter. I am just reeling in shock.

The existing gas line you are describing is pretty small. It's possible that they have to connect to a high pressure line that is a considerable distance from your facility.

Have you asked for a detailed explanation of what the $60,000 covers?

[vsaks]

Yes, the line is small. I was hoping they could run a higher pressure through it rather than .25 psi.

Basically the cost covers replacing the service line from the main on the street to the meter, and included trenching.

I am now looking at the option of another contractor doing the trenching like Huffy2k

The existing gas line you are describing is pretty small. It's possible that they have to connect to a high pressure line that is a considerable distance from your facility.

Have you asked for a detailed explanation of what the $60,000 covers?

[vsaks]

Pete,

Thanks for the suggestion, but not sure how that would work with the low NOX requirements they have over here

Not answering your question directly, but have you considered waste oil boilers, used fryer or motor oil?

You need storage tanks and filters but running costs are almost zero.

Or use the gas you have and boost with waste oil when you need it.

[Silk City Distillers]

We ran into a similar issue.

Our boiler can burn heating oil or gas depending on the burner - so we went with the oil burner - and will running oil until oil becomes uneconomical, at that point we'll switch burners and have the gas line run. I did the math at the time, and the minor cost savings of gas had a pretty poor ROI when you factored in the gas line cost.

However, we are in an area with major heating oil infrastructure, and it doesn't hurt that the cost of oil is pretty low right now.

[Scrounge]

Double check with your pg$e rep. I have done 3 service upgrades at different locations and a new service when I built my distillery. They will have you list all your usage requirments during the engineering phase of the project. They will calculate a new price based on your planned usage. They then reasses you after 3 yrs to make sure you hit the target usage, if not, they bill you for more on the old install price. For example- a new 400amp service to a new glass blowing facility I built 5 yrs ago was bid at 14k from them(new transformer and service drop), then after they considered my planned usage the total I paid was right around 700$. My distillery was same thing. Brand new service(transformer and drop to my panel) once my anticipated usage was factored in 13k became 1600$. This has all been for electric, but done with pg$e. they also give you an option at pay time of a 50%reduction in fees and its said and done or you pay full price and receive 10% back as usage credit each year for 10yrs. Make sure your getting the whole story from whom ever your talking to. If you just inquired unofficially they may not have explained everything, and of course maybe they work differently on the gas projects?

[vsaks]

Scrounge,

Thanks for the lowdown. I talked to their second line of representatives (you have to wait 2-3 days for a callback), but didn't get into detailed usage, as they wanted me to submit an application to engineering for a property I haven't yet leased. I am hoping that they'll cut me a similar break on the gas side based upon usage.

Double check with your pg$e rep. I have done 3 service upgrades at different locations and a new service when I built my distillery. They will have you list all your usage requirments during the engineering phase of the project. They will calculate a new price based on your planned usage. They then reasses you after 3 yrs to make sure you hit the target usage, if not, they bill you for more on the old install price. For example- a new 400amp service to a new glass blowing facility I built 5 yrs ago was bid at 14k from them(new transformer and service drop), then after they considered my planned usage the total I paid was right around 700$. My distillery was same thing. Brand new service(transformer and drop to my panel) once my anticipated usage was factored in 13k became 1600$. This has all been for electric, but done with pg$e. they also give you an option at pay time of a 50%reduction in fees and its said and done or you pay full price and receive 10% back as usage credit each year for 10yrs. Make sure your getting the whole story from whom ever your talking to. If you just inquired unofficially they may not have explained everything, and of course maybe they work differently on the gas projects?

[rtshfd]

Find a local steam fitting contractor. They typically are very experienced with gas line management and would easily subsidize installation in exchange for a boiler service contract.

From the street back to replace our line we were looking at about $5-10k. For 60k you're looking at a new boiler at that point. A rather large one at that. Is your boiler undersized for the size line you want and your quote includes that?

Also, your utility company may subsidize or outright do the work for you to some extent.

something is fucky with that 60k number.

[Huffy2k]

I just got a quote of about $8900 to install a new 3" gas line approximately 150 feet from my building to the main.

[vsaks]

This is all being done by your contractor, and the gas company is just connecting the pipe, and the meter, correct ?

I am talking to them about this option too.

I just got a quote of about $8900 to install a new 3" gas line approximately 150 feet from my building to the main.