Sour Mash

[helocat]

Sour Mash Q.

When doing a proper sour mash, do you put the whole left over stillage or just the tails cut into the next batch?

If it’s the tails cut (thinking that it is) do you put it into the mash as you make it up prior to the lauder tun or the wash on its way to the fermenter, or after the fermentation right before you charge the still?

Thank you!

[Denver Distiller]

It's up to you. Not sure where you got the notion to put tails into back into your fermentation process. Traditionally, stillage is added back as roughly a quarter of the volume of the total mash. This lowers pH of the mash and, obviously, the starting and final pH of your fermentation. You're also adding a pretty hefty amount of solids back into the mash, as well as some nutrients for your freshly pitched yeast. Do you have the ability to handle solids in your still?

What are you trying to achieve?

Happy New Year.

[will]

It's not the tails cut...it's the stillage for Sour Mash, but you've asked a barrage of questions, let's do them one at a time.

Based on the fact that you're asking about Sour Mash, DD's reply answers your question - the stillage is added, and it drops the pH and adds nutrient...and it's a portion, not the whole thing.

I've not tried this, but as i recall, the argument for adding heads or tails back to the next ferment is to attempt to get the critters to metabolize some of the junk into alcohol. During fermentation, there are intermediate products that in an ideal case would ultimately convert to alcohol. Like many processes, metabolism is dependent to a degree on equilibrium, so perhaps adding small amounts of undesired material pushes the equilibrium in the direction of making more alcohol....and you'll still get some (maybe more) junk left in the kettle next time. Of course, this also means that more undesirable stuff will push through the still into your product. In this case, the garbage is added to the wash (before inoculation).

Some producers do also add tails (and perhaps heads) back to the kettle while charging the still, and they may do this on stripping runs only, or on finishing runs as well.

So, in conclusion, all your suppositions lead somewhere. Weird, eh? If you can dream it up, someone out there is doing it.

Nappy Hew Year!

Will

[helocat]

Great information thank you both DD and Will.

I have been ingesting as much information I can I think I am starting to mix it up. I need to start taking notes like in collage as I read the books. Will nailed, in recollection I did read where some distillers saved the tails cut and tossed it into the next charge of the still for flavers. I then mixed that up with what a real sour mash was, DD thank you.

DD: You say a hefty amount of solids. Is this still the case with a wash that has been ran through a Lauder tun? (whiskey)

All research right now. 2010 will be the year I build my still (250 gallon) and work with the TTB and state. Working on location at this time. Whiskey is the product.

[cowdery]

Is sour mash even possible if you're distilling a wash? I would guess it's not.

[Denver Distiller]

Well yes, it's possible. Although, IMHO, the effects would not be as profound, and perhaps not worth the trouble. I don't think that the pH drop would be the same as it would be in, say, putting typical bourbon stillage into a bourbon mash....but it would still acidify since, obviously, fermented wash will have a lower pH than mash, either before or after lautering.

[Sherman]

If you are after that mouth feel and flavor profile that sour mashing gives you in a non-mash wash, try using a little bit of liquid lactic acid from the brew shop. It adds a complexity and depth to the final product without having to reuse spent stillage. I do this when fermenting sorghum syrup because the fruity acids such as tartaric, malic, and citric acids do not compliment the flavor well. The lactic acid helps in creating ethyl lactate with is a desirable flavor in spirits unlike ethyl acetate from acetic acid and ethanol.

[coop]

If you are after that mouth feel and flavor profile that sour mashing gives you in a non-mash wash, try using a little bit of liquid lactic acid from the brew shop. It adds a complexity and depth to the final product without having to reuse spent stillage. I do this when fermenting sorghum syrup because the fruity acids such as tartaric, malic, and citric acids do not compliment the flavor well. The lactic acid helps in creating ethyl lactate with is a desirable flavor in spirits unlike ethyl acetate from acetic acid and ethanol.

You say use a little bit, how much is a little? What would be the ratio of lactic acid per gallon of wash. coop

[Sherman]

If using the liquid it is about a teaspoon (5 ml) per gallon. That acidifies it to a tasty sweet/sour flavor especially with molasses or sorghum syrup washes. Makes you wan to drink it like soda.