Lassiter Distilling Co Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Down here our water supply is usually treated with chloramine, which we mitigate, but our water supply changes to a chlorine based treatment from March through April. Since this happened, despite our efforts to react out the chlorine, we've been getting substandard fermentations (we typically ferment to 1.022, but we can't seem to get below 1.034 since the chlorine change) and distillation yields. Hearts phase seems to last for about half the time/volume it did prior to the switch to chlorine treatment. Is this something anyone else has run into? I'm planning to push our water supply through a charcoal filter very slowly for our next fermentation to see if that will do a better job than reacting out the chlorine with potassium metabisulfite. Any other suggestions here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3d0g Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Chloramine is typically harder to eliminate than chlorine. Grab a test kit from the pet store to see if chlorine is really the culprit. Easiest way to eliminate chlorine is to run your mash water the night before and simply let it gas off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Yes. Chlorine reacts with organic matter, including some important micronutrients. This is how it prevents microbes from reproducing in your drinking water. This reacted organic matter is also well known in public pools as "disinfection byproducts". The smell and taste of them is unpleasant. My only recommendation is that you find a way to warm and vigorously aerate the water. You can also add a small amount of ascorbic acid solution to your water, then proceed to add baking soda. This reaction yields dehydroascorbic acid and salt. This is the government recommended method of removing chlorine from water. That being said, I can't speak for the effects of the new acid on your spirit... Any organic reactant open's the pandora's box with something as complicated as fermentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 +1 on what 3d0g says. Fill the mash tank the night before and let the chlorine gas off. It's what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dehner Distillery Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Buy a big carbon water filter off of ebay..... $350... 2 cubic feet...........done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyspirits Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 19 minutes ago, Dehner Distillery said: Buy a big carbon water filter off of ebay Suboptimal for chloramine removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeBird Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 We are also on city water. Fresh water coming in goes through a pair of carbon filters, one on the main water line coming to the production area, and then a second one on the line that feeds only the condenser. When we change out filter cartridges a new goes on the condenser line, and the old condenser only filter gets moved to the main line, and the old main line one gets tossed. Having two in line like this allows us to push the limits of the filters max useful life, but still be confident that our condenser/mash water is getting fully filtered. The now filtered and warm/hot spent condenser water goes into an elevated and insulated holding tank where it can also off gas if needed. When we mash we gravity fill from this holding tank through an ultraviolet light into the mash tun. The ultraviolet light is there just to try and help kill anything off that may have started growing while this warm water sits around for potentially a few days. Nice thing about this setup is we are recovering/reusing a good chunk of our spent condenser water, and or mash water is also pre-heated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyspirits Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Really good article on brewing water. We've worked with this guy in the past. https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3d0g Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 34 minutes ago, Dehner Distillery said: Buy a big carbon water filter off of ebay..... $350... 2 cubic feet...........done Assuming catalytic carbon, yup. 30 seconds contact time is the minimum recommended for chloramine, so 2 cubic feet should cover the 7 gpm of a 3/4" tap. Regular activated carbon can need 4x the contact time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyspirits Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Just now, 3d0g said: Assuming catalytic carbon Exactly. But it's much more expensive that standard AC. We use the recommended 35mg of potassium metabisulfite / gallon of water. No flow rate restrictions, no filter medium PM needed, etc. Filling a 2500 liter mash cooker at 7 gpm would be painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3d0g Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Yup. Hard to beat K-Meta bang for the buck in chloramine removal. Carbon filter does have the advantage of removing other organics. Breweries tend to go carbon due to sulfate concerns in their beer. We've got copper to deal with that ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyspirits Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 45 minutes ago, 3d0g said: Carbon filter does have the advantage of removing other organics I neglected to mention we do have a large AC filter but, as discussed, don't use it for chloramine removal. It's OK in terms of flow rate, but as we've bough larger equipment (600 liter to 2500 liter) we need to research another solution. Im at risk of hijacking the thread so think I'll start another topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Hydro Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 We use carbon tanks for chlorine removal, and CGAC in the tanks for chloramine treatment. The EBCT needed to treat the two disinfectants is different. Both can be successfully treated with backwashing carbon tanks for faster flows, and cartridge filters for slower flows. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsking416 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Chlorine evaporates, check out this article. https://sciencing.com/remove-chlorine-from-water-4516999.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Hydro Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Yep. This is one of the reasons water utilities are switching from chlorine to chloramine. As the water delivery pipelines get longer and longer as the suburbs expand, you can test for free chlorine at the end of the line and find none. Chloramine on the other hand, does not volatilize. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaChascona Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Hi All, I just had water tested in a fairly remote part of central Chile..... Before I go any further, Chile is not known to have good water in this area...... The water comes from a "municipal well" and very basic infrastructure and water treatment is used. As of now I would like to use it for proofing down my Gin, which I re distill from NGS. I have read the above bru'n water link but as I am not fermenting. I wanted to get some more opinions on proofing water. Maybe some of you brew and proof with the same water and do or don't have issues with louching or off flavors...? Basically I'm kind of trying to do the minimum to the water... for two reasons. The system I need to "clean" the water up completely is extremely expensive and secondly, I would like to eventually ferment with it.... without having to add to much back in. Here was my report: PH 7.9 Cerium (C.E.) mS/cm 1.62 Boron (B) mg/L 0.16 Calcium (Ca) 225 Copper (Cu) <0.01 Iron (Fe) <0.01 Magnesium (Mg) 28.08 Manganese (Mn) <0.01 Ammonium (NH4) <0.02 Nitrate (NO3) 43.6 Sodium (Na) 84.66 Phosphate (PO4) 0.03 Zinc (Zn) 0.03 Bicarbonate (HCO3) 331 Potassium (K) 5.99 Chlorine (Cl) 165.11 Sulfate (SO4) 314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Hydro Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Everything below Boron is in mg/L? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaChascona Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Did you just call me a Boron? Sorry. yes, Everything is mg/L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Hydro Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Ha! Well... something is screwed up. This is supposed to be drinking water? Are you confident in the lab results? 165 ppm chlorine??? 44 ppm Nitrate?? I wouldn't drink that water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaChascona Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Believe it or not, yes, it is supposed to be drinking water.... rather it IS the drinking water of the town. A very rural and poor town about an hour outside of Santiago, Chile. I trust the lab results. They were done by the top university in the country and the sample was processed with in 24 hours from when it was taken..... so they say. The results of municipal water from Santiago, which is supposedly the best was: WOULD YOU DRINK THIS? PH 8.03 Cerium (C.E.) mS/cm 0.9 Boron (B) mg/L 0.14 Calcium (Ca) 108 Copper (Cu) <0.01 Iron (Fe) <0.01 Magnesium (Mg) 8.83 Manganese (Mn) <0.01 Ammonium (NH4) <0.02 Nitrate (NO3) 1.07 Sodium (Na) 68.41 Phosphate (PO4) <0.01 Zinc (Zn) <0.01 Bicarbonate (HCO3) 102 Potassium (K) 3.47 Chlorine (Cl) 97.2 Sulfate (SO4) 230 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Hydro Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The lab results for Santiago water seem fairly ordinary, except: Cerium - I'm not familiar with this and would need to do some homework before commenting on it. Chlorine - the US EPA limit for drinking water is 4 ppm. Santiago has 97 ppm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Hydro Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 18 hours ago, Buckeye Hydro said: Ha! Well... something is screwed up. This is supposed to be drinking water? Are you confident in the lab results? 165 ppm chlorine??? 44 ppm Nitrate?? I wouldn't drink that water. And by all means don't give that water to a baby or a pregnant woman. Limit on Nitrate in drinking water is 10 ppm - you're at 4 times that. Get an RO system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaChascona Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Thanks Buckeye. So what brought me to this thread in the first place.... I have read that sometimes water test results will list the amount of Chlorine but it is actually Chloramine. Is there an easy way to determine for sure which one is in the water? like with a test from a pool store or something? Secondly, If it is in fact Chlorine would the best way to get rid of it be letting it sit in an open top tank and evaporate out? Also, would just an RO system clean that water up? Or would you recommend additional filters? Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Hydro Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Water reports in the USA call out chloramine vs chlorine. Not sure what the standards call for, or if there are reporting standards in Chile. If you measure TOTAL chlorine, and FREE chlorine and there is a difference in the two, the difference is chloramine. http://www.buckeyehydro.com/insta-test-free-and-total-chlorine-test-strips/ If you want to access the water n real time at common residential flow rates, you'd run the water through a carbon filter. I'd recommend you do that at point-of-use rather than point-of-entry. In residential applications POU treatment for this purpose is usually with a sediment filter followed by a carbon block. Are you asking about a whole house RO system, or a point of use RO system? Either way, yes - RO water would be ideal for residential use. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaChascona Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Thanks Russ. You sell these systems, yes? If so, email me at NicholasDeeg@gmail.com. I import a lot of things from the US because Chile is usually double the price. Either Way, Thank you very much for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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