GNS Cost and Availability

[dombrowskig]

How do people go about sourcing their GNS? Is there an open marketplace or is it all negotiated with manufacturers or distributors?

How much can one expect to pay at the 50 gallon level for GNS? At what QTYs could I expect to see price breaks?

[Southernhighlander]

Call these guys.  They will tell you everything you want to know and send you some free samples.  The Corn derived Vodka (GNS) was $3.00 a proof gallon last time that I checked.  They deliver in 55 gallon food grade HDPE barrels and 270 gallon HDPE totes.  https://ultrapure-usa.com/services/distilleries-blenders-bottlers/  if you need a still to run GNS into Vodka one of my 105 gallon baine maries will produce $12,500.00 worth of Vodka from GNS in about 6 hrs.  I also have blending tanks with explosion proof agitator motors.  We have explosion proof pumps.  If you want to go big time I can sell you a still That will produce $100,000 worth of vodka from GNS in 6 hrs.  

[indyspirits]

Never misses a trick.

 

 

[Roger]

Can't you just run a hose out of the bottom of a commercial Bunn coffee machine and pump NGS into the top, and make Vodka ?   Why in the world would you spend $100,000- to make fake vodka ?   

[whiskeytango]

When you buy 190 proof GNS you buy vodka all you got to do is add water and proof it down to your desired proof an slap a label on it. Badabing your a vodka distillery.   No need to distill 190 proof neutral to make vodka.  

[Roger]

True dat. However I was referencing the much more valuable craft, handmade "pot distilled" option.

Its the closest to a Coffey still, 90% of the current crop of distilers will ever get. 

[Southernhighlander]

10 hours ago, whiskeytango said:

When you buy 190 proof GNS you buy vodka all you got to do is add water and proof it down to your desired proof an slap a label on it. Badabing your a vodka distillery.   No need to distill 190 proof neutral to make vodka.  

Most GNS produced in fuel ethanol plants has residual heads left in.  Normally you can get a great deal of improvement from redistilling and removing those heads.  Also this person may be making Gin, or they may be blending.  I really don't understand why anyone would have a problem with someone using GNS to blend or to make Gin. Craft Gins are normally and even traditionally made by vaporizing GNS and running the vapors through a Gin basket or by maceration in the pot.  I have sold lots of Gin stills that were built specifically for running GNS with oversized condensers and heating systems.  I have a customer who is getting a still that will run 5,000 gallons per day of GNS through a very large botanicals basket for flavor infusions.  I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with that?  i understand the Vodka thing, but why would anyone have a problem with blending or distilling Gin using GNS?  Please enlighten me.

 

Indyspirits, No I never miss a trick when it comes to trying helping people and selling great equipment, just ask any of the owners of the 19% of  distilleries in the US that are running my stills.  Ask them about my customer service and my willingness to do hours of free consulting,  My willingness to help them lay out their distilleries for free.  My willingness to tell them every industry secret that I know and I know more secrets than you might think.  The fact that I never upsell, I only offer the exact equipment that the customer needs and if they have a tight budget, I can usually figure out how to get them into equipment that will do the job.  I truly care about helping my customers become successful.  I would love to see the day when there is at least 1 distillery in every county in the US.

[whiskeytango]

14 minutes ago, Southernhighlander said:

Most GNS produced in fuel ethanol plants has residual heads left in.  Normally you can get a great deal of improvement from redistilling and removing those heads.  Also this person may be making Gin, or they may be blending.  I really don't understand why anyone would have a problem with someone using GNS to blend or to make Gin. Craft Gins are normally and even traditionally made by vaporizing GNS and running the vapors through a Gin basket or by maceration in the pot.  I have sold lots of Gin stills that were built specifically for running GNS with oversized condensers and heating systems.  I have a customer who is getting a still that will run 5,000 gallons per day of GNS through a very large botanicals basket for flavor infusions.  I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with that?  i understand the Vodka thing, but why would anyone have a problem with blending or distilling Gin using GNS?  Please enlighten me.

I assumed vodka because that what you where talking about.   But yes lots of people us GNS for Gin and thats a very common practice.   Also I didn't say it would be good vodka.. 

 

 

 

[Southernhighlander]

23 minutes ago, whiskeytango said:

I assumed vodka because that what you where talking about.   But yes lots of people us GNS for Gin and thats a very common practice.   Also I didn't say it would be good vodka.. 

I hear you.  I do understand about the Vodka.  Personally I do not believe that redistillers of GNS should put craft on the bottle or other lies like handcrafted in a pot still etc.  However, I do not have a problem with someone redistilling GNS for Vodka as long as they do not put craft etc on the bottle.

[bluefish_dist]

For gin I agree, use GNS if you want.  we toured beefeater in London and they don't make the base spirit.  They bring in GNS although they have big plate stills to clean up the spirit of needed.  It also seems that in England most gin distillers have a rectifiers license and can only redistill vs a manufacturer license to make spirits.  Very different than the us.  

[Southernhighlander]

Bluefish,  

How do you feel about using GNS for blending?  

 

 

[bluefish_dist]

Do whatever you want, but be honest with the customer.  I can't stand "distillers" who do everything they can to obscure who or where the product is actually made.  If you redistill GNS and sell it as vodka, say that's what you do.  Say why it makes a better vodka than simply bottling GNS.  If you just bottle GNS, say that's what you do, don't call it hand crafted when you buy a tanker truck at a time.   Don't have a huge still that isn't hooked up and say you make awesome vodka.  You don't make anything, you are simply a bottling plant.  

One distiller who makes a good gin said this on using GNS, do you expect a painter to stretch his own canvas to paint on?   The GNS is simply the canvas to which I paint using botanicals.   I think he has a valid point, but if I make a gin it will be from my own base spirit because that what I want to do   

 

[Southernhighlander]

42 minutes ago, bluefish_dist said:

Do whatever you want, but be honest with the customer.  I can't stand "distillers" who do everything they can to obscure who or where the product is actually made.  If you redistill GNS and sell it as vodka, say that's what you do.  Say why it makes a better vodka than simply bottling GNS.  If you just bottle GNS, say that's what you do, don't call it hand crafted when you buy a tanker truck at a time.   Don't have a huge still that isn't hooked up and say you make awesome vodka.  You don't make anything, you are simply a bottling plant.  

One distiller who makes a good gin said this on using GNS, do you expect a painter to stretch his own canvas to paint on?   The GNS is simply the canvas to which I paint using botanicals.   I think he has a valid point, but if I make a gin it will be from my own base spirit because that what I want to do   

 

I hear you there.  I have owned business that produce products for over 30 years.  The most important things to me are to make the best possible products that I can make,  and to make my customers happy and make a good profit while I am doing so.  

[Roger]

Sorry, but it is absolutely false that commercial NGS has "heads" that can be removed by a common column still. That is a complete fabrication invented by the re-bubbler's who want to pretend that they are actually doing something to the product.   In most cases the re-bubblers can't even remove the impurities from the water they add to keep their facility from blowing up. 

Paul - you make some great equipment, but don't try to undermine the actual distilling industry by adding fake credibility to the re-bubbling scam. 

 

[Skaalvenn]

We recently switched our aquavit from redistilling GNS, filtering and then flavoring/aging to just filtering then flavoring aging Why? I was never able to get a single drop of heads or tails out of it even when my still produces just under 192 @ 60 degrees on a calibrated and certified hydrometer. I don't have much experience with GNS but at least with the stuff I use there are no heads or tails.

It's 2018 and we are all well aware that we should be conserving energy--not wasting it.  I saw running GNS through the still as a waste of natural resources and think doing so to put  "distilled" on the label rather than "produced" is one of the most ridiculous and wasteful things one could ever do.

(note: I totally understand the requirement to redistill GNS for any type of vapor or pot infused product.)

[Southernhighlander]

2 hours ago, Roger said:

Sorry, but it is absolutely false that commercial NGS has "heads" that can be removed by a common column still. That is a complete fabrication invented by the re-bubbler's who want to pretend that they are actually doing something to the product.   In most cases the re-bubblers can't even remove the impurities from the water they add to keep their facility from blowing up. 

Paul - you make some great equipment, but don't try to undermine the actual distilling industry by adding fake credibility to the re-bubbling scam. 

 

Roger,

 

Welll, since I have never personally distilled GNS to make vodka,  I really can't argue the point.  I had been told by several rebubblers that they rebubble to remove the heads.  They said that some GNS had more than others.  Hmmm maybe I am fallowing faulty info.  It certainly is possible that my statement is incorrect.  I will adjust my recommendations until further research.

 

Thank you.

[Silk City Distillers]

Man, you guys are TOUCHY.

The alcohol part is easy peasy, it's hard finding:

Platinum to filter vodka through.

Diamonds to filter vodka through.

An iceberg to melt down to proof the vodka with.

Thinking about sending a team of explorers to the north pole to core drill for ice to be used to dilute the vodka.

Or maybe some hidden spring in the depths of the Amazon, rumored to be the real fountain of youth.  (Note: Not the actual jungle in South America, I'm talking about just buying some bottled water on Amazon.com).

Jesus, maybe do both, and filter it through chakra stones, and have a reiki master infuse it with positive energy.

And you are calling small producers who redistill GNS charlatans?  You've actually seen the market, no?

[Silk City Distillers]

You'll won't laugh at my stupid examples above after I tell you that they are all real vodkas.

I didn't even mention the low-carb vodka made for bodybuilders and health conscious people.  WTF?

Or the pH balanced Vodka, better for you since it's not acidic.  Or the Alkaline Vodka, that's more alkaline than neutral, because somehow that's even better for you.

[indyspirits]

13 hours ago, Roger said:

Sorry, but it is absolutely false that commercial NGS has "heads" that can be removed by a common column still.

Explain please. 

[Roger]

Explain what ? That's like asking someone to prove a lie. If you want to ask a question, ask a Fakeillery to explain the process of how they remove the "heads" from NGS and then every actual distiller on the planet will knock off their "secret process" for themselves.

[bluestar]

You should also charcoal filter it.

[indyspirits]

23 hours ago, Roger said:

If you want to ask a question, ask a Fakeillery to explain the process of how they remove the "heads" from NGS

Why all the anger about using GNS? Aren't we all in this to make money, to pay our kids college tuition and our mortgages, to save for retirement and look for that happy exit (from the business, not life!) ?  I've yet to find a a business plan whereby home-rolled neutral spirits are consistently better and less expensive to produce than GNS. Hell you can even get 200 proof GNS which I doubt has much in the way of heads or tails. Try that in your 40 tray column.  Help this noob to understand.

 

 

[Roger]

Put simply, NGS vodka is ordinary. It is not good or bad, it is just ordinary. It's been sold off the bottom shelf of liquor stores for years, and out of millions of bar wells. It is essentially a commodity with no margin.

Meanwhile independent small distilleries are now legal in the US and are growing at a reasonable rate, made primarily possible by said distilleries being able to charge a premium price for their products, to consumers who appreciate their sense of craft and efforts. 

In between that is the Fakillery. The flood of pretend producers who tout " our grains are grown right in our back 40 and harvested by disadvantage Amish who then grind the grains with a horse operated mill...."    

What they don't tell the consumer is they are talking about the 4 barrels of whiskey they put away for 10 years from now, while 99% of their revenue stream is really just dumping NGS in bottles, some with drops of flavor and sugar, which they then charge a craft price for.

so yes we are here to make money, and if you are a re-bubbler, than you are welcome for our helping to allow you to charge an exhorbinate price for a disingenuous product and process. 

Prost 

 

[Silk City Distillers]

Did a double blind tasting of vodkas with 20-30 other distillers.  Smirnoff won.  Plastic bottle Popov commanded a very respectable position, I believe Svedka did as well.  I won’t say what the craft distillers ranked as the worst vodkas.

[indyspirits]

7 hours ago, Roger said:

It is essentially a commodity with no margin.

Many a balance sheet would beg to differ.

 

7 hours ago, Roger said:

independent small distilleries are now legal in the US

Were they ever illegal after the 21st Amendment?

7 hours ago, Roger said:

to consumers who appreciate their sense of craft and efforts.

If by that you mean marketing blackmagicfuckery I certainly agree.

7 hours ago, Roger said:

99% of their revenue stream is really just dumping NGS in bottles, some with drops of flavor and sugar, which they then charge a craft price for.

Well I certainly hope they charcoal filter. Frankly I say more power to them. I don't even know what you mean by "Craft Price". I once saw a crystal skull head bottle of vodka for $100. 

7 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Did a double blind tasting of vodkas with 20-30 other distillers.  Smirnoff won.

It's not the first time!

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/26/dining/a-humble-old-label-ices-its-rivals.html