20 minutes ago, FIVE x 5 Consulting said:

 

Here's my (snarky) translation of your post: "I just did the two things that most frequently lead to haze in spirits.  Why are my spirits hazy?"  

Actually, the question is, has anyone experienced haze from a yeast/nutrient/enzyme product?

As mentioned earlier, absolutely zero haze occurred after 3 years of proofing down with quality well water when using EC1118, including infusing citrus rinds.

For the record, I did a few searches, but perhaps did not use the best terms.

And thanks for the snarky translation. It's exactly what I'd look for in a consultant.

Hey folks,

With a few years of R&D in rum under my belt, I hit a new issue this week. 

A little background:  I have been using EC1118 to ferment a solution using crystalized sugar, and getting pleasant results. The caveat is that it has taken 4-6 weeks to ferment dry. The amount of FermaidK used has been from medium to medium high.

These rums have all responded positively to proofing with our well water, which is of very high quality.

In an effort to speed up fermentation, I did a trial using STILL SPIRITS RUM DISTILLER'S YEAST that contains nutrients and glycoamylase. The desired reduction in fermentation time was met, clocking in at 7 days. The aromas during fermentation were not nearly as pleasant. Smells like a hot fermentation to me, which it is at 90F, compared to the other staying below 80F.  But the distilled rum from this trial has organoleptic quality comparable to anything else I'd done with EC1118.

I noticed right away that the later tails had a haze to them, but the main cut was clear.  The problem occurred when proofing down. The well water caused a slight haze, though distilled water did not.

One of my products has orange rind infused into the rum. Even the clear, proofed to 40% rum, reacted quite strangely, looking much more akin to powered lemonade that the clear orangish liquid we have been use to.  

I'm using a very simple, electric element pot still setup with Chore Boy's stuffed into a 2ft stack.

First photo shows proofing down with well water on left and DI on right.
Second photo has proofed down with DI mixed 50/50 with orange infusion (left) and 55% straight from the still infused orange rind (right)

Next trial I'm considering a turbo yeast. Any suggestions?

 

26 minutes ago, jocko said:

Welcome.  I'm at a similar timeline.  Buildout underway. Still, boiler, fermenters, chiller, etc all waiting to be installed as soon as sloped floor is epoxied. 

I hope your floor has better sloped than mine! 

(old Irish saying)

and thanks for the welcome. This forum seems like a wonderful resource of experience and knowledge.

On 5/30/2017 at 9:38 AM, Sator Square Distillery said:

Very good advice that I think still holds up since it was posted.

I'm just about ready to get started producing here. I'm waiting on a final approval from the PA LCB since I was given prior approval.

I ran into the specific issue with the TTB regarding the presence of a residence on the property. The TTB officer assigned to my application initially was going to deny it, and quoted this regulation here: 26 US Code 5178 - Premises of Distilled Spirits Plants. Section B: 

(B) No distilled spirits plant for the production of distilled spirits shall be located in any dwelling house, in any shed, yard, or inclosure connected with any dwelling house, or on board any vessel or boat, or on premises where beer or wine is made or produced, or liquors of any description are retailed, or on premises where any other business is carried on (except when authorized under subsection (b))

The TTB has very broad authority to define what the word "connected" and "premises" means. I was told that they can consider anything located on the same parcel of land to be "connected" to the same "premises", even without any sort of physical connection between the buildings on that land. I know that is counter-intuitive to common sense, but you're dealing with the federal government. They hold the cards.

Our property is zoned AG-1, protected agricultural, not residential. So once we established that fact we were able to compromise with a fence separating the home located on the parcel from the DSP. I believe the zoning of our property made the difference between approval and denial, and our willingness to do whatever it took to meet them halfway. If your property is zoned residential I would not expect it to get approved by the TTB. Your local municipality would likely have a problem with that too, but YMMV.

My advice to anyone in a similar situation is to NOT ARGUE with the TTB officer. They have the authority to deny your application, or approve it on a case by case basis as they see it. Even if they're not right they are still right. Finding a way to compromise is going to be a lot less expensive than hiring a lawyer.
 

 

Just to point out the spectrum of possibilities: We started with a winery, 20 years later added a brewery (I know, what took me so long!), and just recently added a DSP permit, all in the same cellar located about 100 ft from our residence. Floor to ceiling walls and lockable doors were required between each entity. Sharing equipment, though possible, was more of a hassle than just keeping everything separate by making that declaration. There were no inspections required. 

My volumes are on the scale of ridiculous with a 40 gallon still that produces just over 4 cases a run. Perhaps that came into play? Perhaps they figured I'd be doing it anyway, might as well get *some* revenue from me! But I also suspect that it was the approach of adding permits that made the process easier. My friends who have started (and become quite successful) with a distillery nearby have a different story from when they started (just a distillery) 15 years ago.

A side note; the TTB site keeps a running timeframe of how long it takes before they will look at an application after submission (only available online now). Last year it took a couple weeks LESS than they predicted (48 days?), and I had permit in hand within the next week or so. Labels and formulas took only a day each.

For 18 years my partner and I operated soley as a production winery, Peaceful Bend Vineyard, until a fire destroyed the original historic winery building late November 2016. The new facility was completed and open to the public by the Spring of 2018, adding beer production and a commercial kitchen to the mix. During the March 2020 quarantine, with lots of spare time on my hands, I discovered that parts of our 1 barrel Stout electric brewery could be converted into a pot still with just a few extra stainless fittings that were already in the cellar. After nearly 3 years of trials, we have now recently received the federal DSP permit, including label and formula approvals,  and are currently in the final phase of research and development, and looking forward to production.

First thing I distilled was a wine that I made specifically to distill. (I make this distinction because it should be noted that there was no sulfites added to the wine, and there was only very limited sulfite present after distillation). I had 2 buckets of concentrated grape juice that had oxidized on me. It was 68 Brix, so biologically stable, but I had no way to keep it refrigerated and consequently it turned brown. Didn't smell bad; kinda prunish, raisinish. I hydrated to 24 Brix, and fermented dry. The distilled results were quite pleasing, which had me looking for more material to ferment. I had some other bulk wine available, but the sulfite content of the production wine made for some unpleasant aromas for first run batches.

The real turning point was doing the math on the profit potential. It takes over 3 bottles of wine to make one bottle of brandy, so for me that math doesn't work. 

The math of Rum seems to work well, plus the materials are readily available.  

I'm here to learn more about the ins and outs of operating a distillery, and perhaps make some connections.

Salud,