Spirited

Hi folks

We're looking at multi shot production of gin on the smaller of our stills. My understanding is that for a x2 concentration multishot you would add twice the amount of botanicals to your standard charge (say 100 litres at 50% ABV). Once the new make spirit is collected this is diluted down with more alcohol before proofing to bottling strength.
My instinct tells me that if the total spirit collected from our still was say 40 litres at 75% then we would add a further 30 litres of alcohol before proofing (40/100 x 75). Could anyone elaborate/confirm/deny. we are aware of other issue such as proportional scaling of ingredients etc. Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers - a cold distiller hugging his still to stay warm!

Have you considered a botanicals out boil - that is to say, pre macerate your botanicals for a period of time, maybe with some low heat applied, the remove botanicals and transfer the liquid to your still. We use this process for our gin - the results have been really well received. Absinthe is on our list of spirits to try and we will be adopting this method.

We've now cut back hugely on all botanicals and have switched to removing botanicals from the charge prior to boiling. Managing to retain profile of test batches but are still getting an odd aroma. This aroma actually drops out on dilution, something we have tested on product straight from the still as well as the disastrous run from 6 days ago. Anyone else experiencing huge variations between their NMS and rested/proofed spirit. I know it changes but this really is quite something.

Hi Bluestar

Its a still dragon 50 litre pot still. Single adjustable heating element 5.5kw max (typically run at 40% power once vapour started to come over). No plated column, just a simple riser with site glass into condenser and collection parrot. All stainless steel. Charge is 50% ABV (GNS and distilled water). Botanicals left in during boil as per smaller tests. Am going to reduce botanical levels to get rid of louching and may increase height of riser column to provide more head space. Flavour when cut is close to what we got on tests however despite big (too much levels) of juniper, we are not getting much juniper character. This might be overpowered by coffee cherry. Someone advised that proportional scaling of botanicals to charge does not work and that we should repeat the experiment but cut the botanical levels by 80%. I know sometimes, less can be more.

Morning (here in the UK anyway)

Last night we ran a 50% 40 litre gns/water charge through our 50 litre stilldragon pot still. Previous tests have only been in the region of 1 - 5 litres. We scaled our botanical content up proportionally to the volume of alcohol/water. This was left for 24 hours. The collected spirit on boiling had a shocking sulpherous nose but the flavour was along the lines of what we expected.

Intermittent cutting of the new make spirit revealed considerable louching throughout the run, which to me suggests the ratio of botanicals to alcohol is way to high. We're going to cut the nms with varying proportions of alcohol/water to see if we can determine the correct ratio. Our thinking is that if we add a volume of alcohol equal to that in the new make spirit and then cut to bottle strength...and loucing disappears, are we correct in assuming that our botanical level should be halved.

Is there a better way of doing this? What about the sulpherous aroma. Is this botanicals stewing? All feedback appreciated.

17 hours ago, MichaelAtTCW said:

I talked to our Flojet rep about this a while back. The older data sheet did have that warning. It's been removed from more recent versions, such as the one here.

As I understand it, the reason the warning was included in the first place is because a long time ago a customer tried to use a small Flojet electric impeller pump to transfer boat fuel. It didn't end well. From that point on they included the boilerplate warnings on all their pump sheets.

There are still old data sheets floating around on the internet, of course. The new ones simply give warnings that it must be used in compliance with ATEX directives, as well as outlining how those directives apply to a number of flammable fluids.

15 hours ago, JustAndy said:

We've been using the flojet pump from TCW for a few weeks and have been pleased with it's performance.

Thanks for the feedback. I finally got an email back from the UK distributor. They advised on not using it...that said they did not really know what AteX was all about. My only concern was with the flashpoint issue. If its a air operated unit with non sparking components and no major build up of heat then there is surely a lack of ignition point. As you folks are still around to testify to it's use then I'm confident it will be okay.Cheers

On 4/6/2015 at 6:40 PM, Southernhighlander said:

Yes the Flojet pump only requires 2.2 CFM to pump 5 gallons per minute so you can run it from a very small compressor. Also my price is only $379.00 + shipping. The ARO pump will be much more expensive. If you need a larger double diaphragm pump then let me know. I can get you a much better price than the other vendors. paul@distillery-equipment.com

Realise this is an older conversation but I've just looked at the Flojet G70K202A. Whilst it says it is AtEx rated there is a note on the data sheet that it should not be used to transfer liquids with a flashpoint below 37 degrees celcius...which seems to rule 97% abv NGS with a flashpoint of 17 degrees celcius out of the equation. I can't see any reason why the unit should spark, esp is the pump and hoses are grounded. Anyone else have any concerns over this?

Moved onto the details of our bottling line in the final stages of setting up. Through put is hopefully going to be in the region of 200 litres per week. Initially we're going to run an enolmatic single filler, drawing product from SS blending tanks via a single cartridge filter. Our water is RO treated. Interested to know what peoples views on the following.

1) polypropylene or stainless - what's the typical lifespan of both?
2) filter size (microns) - looking for a balance of polished spirit without knocking out flavour/aroma?

3) Has anyone used the enolmatic single filler standard version not (upspecced with SS parts option). is it still working?

Thanks folks, feedback on your experience is as always, greatly appreciated.

I see a lot of folks are using the enolmatic - are you using the standard one or the more robust version I have just been told about that has greater resistance to spirits and comes with a SS filler head. Will be filling about 200l per week once up and running so am keen to know whether the standard one will offer the durability. Cheers

Hi Folks

We're potentially in the great position whereby we can pump harvested rainwater from a single tank, run it through a worm tub condenser then return it back to the same collection tub. I'm aware that seasonally the temperature of water coming in will vary and therefore we might need to regulate with a chiller....and of course the returning water will heat up the supply tank. But by how much?

1) The supply tank is approx 8000 litres

2) Our worm tub will hold approx 150 litres

3) The gin still will be charged with a maximum of 200 litres wash @50%

4) The still will run for approx 4hr 30min

If anyone out there is using a worm tub, whats the temperature of your water coming off and importantly how does this compare to the temperature of your new make spirit.

Would we better just installing a second tank and simply transfer cooling water between the two (there would be a cool down period as we won't initially be distilling everyday.

Cheers

To date a lot of development work has been done using 700ml of vodka @ 37.5% abv in our pilot still. We are now shifting over to using GNS reduced with water so the charge will be 1 litre at 60% abv.

Given the increase in total volume of charge and increase of alcohol I will be looking to increase the quantity of botanicals.

Question is, should the botanical weight increase be in proportion to increase in total charge or increase in volume of alcohol only. My gut feeling is the latter as it is the alcohol we're ultimately re-condensing with all congeners.

Anyone have experience of this transition upwards in volume and abv. Feedback greatly appreciated.

Cheers All and Happy World Gin Day.

I've seen those units, always wondered if they would be suitable for steam injection mashing.

However, couple downsides for still heating. Many of the sauna/steam room units are not intended to operate under pressure, which means that your steam temperature will be much lower than if you could run a few psi. Second, there is no option for condensate return, which means they will not only waste energy, but water as well.

I suspect they may be talking about a different thing all together, which is a small electrically heated steam boiler, these are sometimes used in small commercial saunas, like you would find in a spa or health club. These units are honest boilers. There are a number of good electric steam boiler manufacturers, Sussman, Chromalox, etc. Fulton does electric as well.

12kw seems a bit on the small side for 300 liters volume, fine to run, but slow to heat.

Thank you and yes, very valid point about the lack of condensate return. We want to be saving energy and water as much as possible.

I've spoken to the guys at Fulton, will check out the other mfrs you've mentioned.

We had a 12kw steam unit from pacific steam that operated continuously up to 150psi that we found on eBay for $800 and it was perfect for our 400 liter Hoga. Heated in an hour and run for 3 hours. Be certain to get the agitator. We don't use it anymore because we outgrew the Hoga and moved on to an Artisan Still Designs unit.

Cheers Krisitian, very useful feedback. I saw the agitator option. If we are using this for gin production is the inclusion of an agitator going to help in ensuring there's a constant movement of botanicals and 50% spirit around the coils or does it serve an additional purpose?

Hi folks

We've been looking at the heating options for a 400 litre Hoga still and are favouring the internal steam heated coil option. As far as steam generation goes, Fulton seem to have some good kit which is being used by a couple of other UK distillers in similar setups. However in the literature from Hoga, there is a suggestion that a 12KW sauna heater would work. At a third the price it looks like an option but I do have concerns over durability. Is anyone out there using a sauna or "non conventional" method of generating steam? If so what has been your experience.

Thanks in advance

Ben

Hello folks

Ben from the soon to be established Puddingstone Distillery, the first small batch gin distillery in our region. Keen to jump on board this forum after meeting with some of you at the 2014 London Craft Distillers Expo.

Looking at using a 400L HOGA pot still which appear to be pretty popular across the states. Would love to get feedback from anyone who is using them.

Cheers