Squarrel Square Barrels

On 9/2/2017 at 6:56 PM, Foreshot said:

Ok, so let's do this. Let's start over. We've been a bit hard on Mr(s). Squarrel, myself included.  I'm doing this solely based on Squarrel's very positive responses to criticisms here. Had you have attacked your detractors I would not be doing this. To me, this means they are a vendor that will listen to their customers. That's a very good thing. We shouldn't waste the opportunity to be able to guide their product to our needs.

To the people here: Let's take this as an opportunity to help a vendor make make a better product. Instead of being negative (like me) let's try to help him/her to make something we really want and can use to make a superior and differentiated product. Also most of us started small, let's try to help him out and not call his/her baby ugly.

To Mr/Mrs. Squarrel: First - thanks being positive despite the negative comments. Most of the criticism comes from a history of products that make magical claims about aging. So far NONE have met their claims. Most don't come close, and there's a fair number that make the product taste odd. Because of this you've got a pretty high bar to cross to get anyone here to believe that your product can achieve your stated outcomes.

 

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Thank you for your thoughtful inquiries and takeaways here. Really, truly, very much appreciated.

We’re strong believers in questioning everything (hence the question mark in the tail of the squirrel in our logo).

It’s a bit ironic actually, the Squarrel business was built on the essence of questioning everything about traditional barrels. What’s the purpose of a barrel? To age and mature a spirit, to add tasty oak-y flavors, both? How much wood is actually needed to do that? Is all of it really needed, or as research has shown us- is only about 1/4 inch from each 2 inch stave (on average) creating flavor? (It’s the latter, obviously.) Can we make a beneficial impact on a natural resource by raising awareness for inefficiencies in the process? How can we help a beautiful industry become even greater? 

So thank you for your input and please keep checking in on us. Though Squarrel is a new addition to the industry the people behind it have been involved in different facets- from distillation of course to malting to farming to equipment design to cooperage-ing- just one of the reasons we’re so excited to bring this product to market. We want to make the process better because we’ve been there too- we’ve dealt with barrel issues, with the nuances of recipe formulation, with equipment that isn’t as perfect as it looks. We are designing this in order to make your life a slight bit easier because we understand how difficult it can be but also how rewarding it can be when it works.

Squarrel is a new product that will be released soon so we do indeed plan to bring loads more information to the public as it comes together. We will have more analytical information, more sensory evaluations, more details from our focus groups and initial customers. I’ll post some of it here and will have samples at the conferences too, so stay tuned!

On 9/2/2017 at 2:44 PM, indyspirits said:

Agree. How many of these "age fast / get rich" schemes have we seen come and go.  I can't fathom how you'd get a label approval (without being deceptive) as these are not an "oak container. I can't imagine one couldnt get the same effect from an open top beer keg with a few staves shoved in.

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Cross cut staves have been aging whiskeys since 2002!

15 years ago, Russ Karasch received his patent to cross cut wood staves so the chances are we’ve all drunk a whiskey that used some form of acetated aging methods. Hudson Bay, for example, uses Black Swan Cooperage’s cross cut barrels so I think it’s safe to say that cross-cutting is a tried and true method. No get rich quick scheme here, just an efficient use of a precious natural resource. J 

As for the necessary micro oxygenation, that comes solely from the effect between the oak, the spirit and the air. The oak must be wall that separates the spirit from the air so that the ‘breathing’ can take place. Oak chips will add wood flavor but only when oxygen can penetrate the spirit through the wood does the breathing- and the chemistry behind it- work to age a spirit. 

All that to say, however, that the increased aging rate is just one feature. The customization and the consistency are also pretty cool!

On 9/2/2017 at 9:29 AM, adamOVD said:

Sorry @Squarrel Square Barrels, didn't mean  to misinform.

No worries at all! Just wanted to clarify. Hope you enjoyed the sample!

If anyone has any questions about the Squarrels please feel welcome to reach out directly and/or check out our website http://www.squarrelbarrels.com/.

This is indeed a new take on a traditional process but we think you're going to have an absolute blast designing your own barrels. We think you deserve the ability to control the flavors that will suit your spirits best and we also think it's time to address the use of our limited and precious oak tree resource- so really if there is anything at all we can assist with please don't hesitate to ask.

And for now just think about this- traditional barrels are built from old growth oak trees, one tree only has enough wood for a 2-5 barrels, and of that wood only about 1/3 of it is needed for flavor. On average one acre of oak produces one barrel per one year. Now I’m not saying traditional barrels aren’t beautiful because they are, and there’s certainly always something to be said for tradition. But here’s the thing: we now have the ability to make the most of the tools we have and as an industry we deserve the benefits a Squarrel can provide. The frame allows us to use the correct amount of needed wood, but it also allows for customization and for exploration.

On 8/24/2017 at 5:52 AM, Foreshot said:

No. These methods have always been around. The reason they aren't adopted more is that oaking is only part of aging. The other part is the change in chemistry that occurs over time. These barrels don't address that. If anything it reduces the amount of "breathing" that the barrel does which would slow down the aging process. 

For NAS stuff, it's something the market will decide. There will be part of the market that feels there is value in saying how old a product is. When I look at a product that has an age statement it makes it easier for me to compare products and their value. Think about it this way, there's two bottles on a shelf you've never tried before. One is NAS the other is 12yo. They are both $100. How do you which is more likely to be worth $100? That what your customer is thinking when they are in the store. In your distillery it's a different story, they can sample there. 

For me everything I've purchased that used to have an age statement that has gone NAS has lost quality. Aberlour A'bunadh and Glenlivet Nadurra are two examples. Because of that I find it hard to assign too much value to a NAS product until I've tried it. 

Oak-ing is indeed only one part of the process, and when aging in a small barrel it is important to ensure that the heart cuts are more selective. But either way, for these small 10-gallons or the 60-gallon Squarrels we’ll release in 2018, Squarrel barrels do address the amount of ‘breathing’ a barrel does.

We’ve worked with universities (in Minnesota and Wisconsin so far) to get this exactly right but yes the wood in the Squarrels will indeed allow for the exact correct amount of micro-oxygenation a barrel needs. Unfortunately it’s just that traditional barrels simply use more wood than is needed.

On 8/23/2017 at 9:08 PM, JustAndy said:

It says oak containers, which I would interpret to mean a container built from oak which these are not. Their use should require the 'finished with wood staves' caveat that appears on other spirits which are flavored with oak rather than aged in barrels. Also these things look ridiculous,  I bet it leaks like a sieve.  

Squarrels do not leak, don’t be silly! We’re here to help make the process more efficient, not waste your time and energy and resources!

The Squarrel frame is sealed by the wood stave and a gasket- and then you screw the stave through the bands so that it’s extra secure. 

It's true they have their own style but guess what- Squarrels stack together to maximize space, there’s a sample valve for easy tasting testing (no more losing a bung under a rack), and they can double as a keg for any brew-distillers or collaborators out there.

On 8/26/2017 at 2:02 PM, dhdunbar said:

No age statement, for American whiskey (other than corn)  = four years or more in oak of the appropriate type (new charred or used).  Store anything in oak containers for less than four years and you must make an age statement.  Those who bottle whiskey which has been stored in oak of the appropriate type for less than four year and do not make an age statement in the appropriate format are in violation of the labeling requirements.  What people "may" do and what they "can" do are not the same.  They may not omit label statements that are required, but they can do it if no one enforces the requirement.  The NAS on Scotch and Irish are acceptable, but the products have a minimum age period that American regulation does not impose.  You can label American whiskey with an age statement, "aged 32 nanoseconds," and comply.  But if it is less than four years, you must use a statement of the form that says the product has been aged for not less than X units.  See 27 CFR 5.40 and the standards of identity in 5.22.

Age is defined at 5.11 - Age. The period during which, after distillation and before bottling, distilled spirits have been stored in oak containers. “Age” for bourbon whisky, rye whisky, wheat whisky, malt whisky, or rye malt whisky, and straight whiskies other than straight corn whisky, means the period the whisky has been stored in charred new oak container.

The container must be made of oak.  The CONTAINER must be made of oak.  Sticking oak staves or chips in a barrel will not suffice.  The CONTAINER must be made of oak.  

HOWEVER, and this is a big however,  if the frame contains staves that line it completely, I can't see a problem.  The container is an oak container with a metal frame replacing the metal hoops.  As far as I know, no one has ever said that that the area of the hoops cannot exceed x% of the total area of the barrel.  TTB may have ruled on metal heads in a way that is possibly revelvant as well.

I note that adamOVD reports, "I recently [had] the opportunity to talk to them at a beer festival, and try some whiskey aged for 4 months. It tasted pretty similar to something aged in a 5 gallon barrel for 4 months. They said they are currently working on getting approved by the TTB to be able to use age statements." If true, it indicates that Sqaurebarrel  is aware of some issue, or it may only indicate that they are dotting "i" and crossing "t's.'

None of this, of course, speaks to the quality of the product that results.       

 

So true. The quality is the most important part, I think we can all agree there. I’ll post some of our analytical research, including some gas chromatographics, on our website to illustrate that our 41 day old whiskey has very similar compounds to older whiskeys. The sensory analysis is just as important though of course so definitely come visit our table at ADI and we’ll share some whiskey then too!

On 8/24/2017 at 6:17 PM, adamOVD said:

I recently the opportunity to talk to them at a beer festival, and try some whiskey aged for 4 months. It tasted pretty similar to something aged in a 5 gallon barrel for 4 months. They said they are currently working on getting approved by the TTB to be able to use age statements.

Was nice meeting you at the Mammoth festival, thanks for checking out the Squarrel!  

Just to confirm, we had a 41-Day old rye whiskey there, so it was about a month and a half old. 

On 8/23/2017 at 5:36 PM, indyspirits said:

All those spirits spend time in a barrel. Just stating the obvious.  Im inclined to think the NAS use well-aged spirit with the majority of new make. Just my tuppence.

Edit: HOLY SHIT!!!  $750 for 10 gallons. That is utter lunacy.

The frame is reusable so you can recoup the cost in a handful of turnarounds, certainly within a 1-2 year timeframe. Plus, with cross-cut staves you’re able to age 8x faster- getting that booze out of the barrel faster, into the hands of your customers faster, selling those bottles faster, and turning a profit faster.