Old385

10 years distilling using a two pot still double distillation setup. Beer and finish still both equipped with a thumper (technically - vapor not spirit feed). No operational or flavor issues but my finish still is failing and I am planning to replace it. Question is specific to the need to have a thumper in the new setup or is it overkill since the second still is acting as a doubler? Case of always done it but not sure if it is required. Appreciate input. Spirits are bourbon and rye whiskey.

On 2/14/2020 at 12:06 AM, daveflintstone said:

It's a straight swap, bottled product for bottled product, why bother to contemplate anything additional? 

For reference, driving 1 mile over the posted speed limit is illegal, and where I live it's against the law to drive into an intersection as soon as the light turns yellow, meaning legally one needs to slam on the brakes and hope for the best. 

just sayin', common sense should sometimes prevail

Fair enough sir. I was told since the tax had been paid that it complicated the situation. Love your common sense reference - driving 1 mile over the speed limit won't cause you to lose your license and ability to drive or pay a huge fine. I was reaching out to the expert community to be safe not sorry. Thanks for taking the time to respond. 

Hi folks,

Honestly not sure if this is a federal, state or both issue. We have product that was sold to our distributor a while back prior to a rebranding/repackaging initiative. The distributor wishes to swap product for product exact amounts of the two year old previous packaged product for the current product. Does anyone know what is involved in making that happen? We also have a small amount of product that demonstrated cloudiness when the winter hit. We would like to be able to return/refilter that product. Appreciate any guidance.

1 hour ago, indyspirits said:

Starch test will tell you if there's any remaining starch and, well, if there's no starch it must have all been cleaved to long chain sugars.  Ours is anywhere between 45 mins to 75 mins depending, I assume, on the quality of the grind and maybe the "freshness" of HTA??  Youre spot on in that adding all grains on the way up is a fools errand. Sounds like you have it will under control. 

 

 

Thanks again for your time. Happy Thanksgiving. 

16 minutes ago, indyspirits said:

Is this a bourbon mash bill, i.e. is there corn in there with the rye & barley?

Edit: Read and re-read that you're using milled corn so the answer to my question is "yes".   

The consultant is partially right.  The starch in corn is bound in a tight matrix, the best way for the alpha to get at is is to soak it in hot water.  There's a paper out there that says 183 is fine. We always heat to 190, add HTA, and hold until negative starch test, lower the temp to under 160 they add our barley / rye / quinoa / oats / whatever.   I have very rarely experienced an infected bourbon mash.  If you cool quickly then pitch an appropriate amount of yeast it will out-compete any wild bugs.  Heating your other-that-corn grains to 185 will server only to denature naturally occurring enzymes.

 

Thanks Indy. Comfy with the gelatinization role so that makes sense. Understood that was targeted solely at the corn. The consultant suggested that all grains could be added on the way up which didn't make sense to me. I am four grain so adding the wheat and rye/barley malts on the way up seemed useless since as you point out they would denature anyway. Only the HTA as I understand can survive the 190f journey. He also suggested a top end rest for 90 mins. Currently I drop to 150 and add malts/wheat, rest then drop pH to 4.7 and fold in my Beta/Gluco for the last rest. Then crash to 80 and pitch and go to ferment. Recently, gravities started to climb which got me back on the research trail. Normal for me was 72 for my bourbon and 82 for my rye. Bourbon is up to 82 and finishing high at 8-12. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Just had an interesting assessment done that raised embrows. Appreciate a perspective from the group. Touches a couple points woven into this thread. In my MB I use both barley and rye malts. Also use liquid Alpha, beta and gluco and realizing good yields. Mash in at 155 and rest at 145. Alpha on the way up and beta/gluco on the way down. Consultant indicated I need a cook temp of 185 and top end rest of 90 mins to “kill bacteria” and “gelatanize” completely even though I’m milled corn. What am I missing folks?

On 12/29/2017 at 6:07 PM, CalivoreSpirits said:

I'm upset to hear that ADI forum moderators have been caving to pressure from Corson and deleting reviews. I hope they now realize that by doing that they are exposing small startup distillers to being swindled out of their money. The only information I could find on them was on the ADI forums and what little I did find was positive. Now I know that's because the negative reviews are being scrubbed but at the time I assumed it meant their operation was legitimate. I was 95% of the way to buying a Corson still. I visited their facility and was just about to write them a $30,000 check for down payment. By a stroke of luck, literally a day before I was going to mail them a check, I found a distiller who was in a battle with them (their story is uncannily similar to everyone else's on here) and I ended the deal with Corson. Fortunately the only money I lost was the cost of my flight and hotel.

I went on to buy from Still Dragon in August. My still is already in transit which actually puts it ahead of schedule. I can't say anything about their quality yet but I will say that Jeff's customer service has been top notch. Even after I had already paid him. 

So I am in the same exact situation you just described. This is frightening. Planning to write and send tomorrow and sitting here reading this thread. Thanks and gratitude to all that have shared. This certainly complicated my plan but will be better to know now. 

Congratulations and thanks for sharing fellow newbie. We are a few months behind you. Best of luck

On 6/28/2010 at 10:36 AM, Valley Spirits Lee said:

Paul,

This is excellent advice. I wish it had been posted 4 years ago. But in the end it is almost exactly what I have done (only money was really out of my own pocket so I built my own equipment).

All you California folks thinking of starting a distillery, do me and a few other people here a favor and don't read this... JK - well, maybe not.

My advice to add would be;

Don't get in a hurry this takes 3-5 years. Licensing alone can take 6 - 12 months.

Reiterating the advice of one wise old codger (Bill Owens) don't quit your day job!!!

SELL, SELL, SELL, marketing and brand development can't be emphasized enough and will consume a good deal more of your time and money than you think.(thanks Bill Smith)

Distributors - wow, GREAT ADVICE COOP - thanks - I needed it.

You are your brand - clean up, speak well, get as much publicity as you can, figure out who you are marketing to and figure out how to market to them on a shoestring budget (unless you have gobs of money - if you do, we would all like to talk to you -but me first!)

Without good planning you are guaranteed to fail and with it you only have a chance of not failing - work hard and prepare yourself young padwan.

May the force be with you.

Lee

Wonderful advantage having access to all of your collective experience. Grateful you are all willing to share. Make it a point to come back monthly and re-read this thread. Thanks everyone.

Building a new distillery in Georgia and spending every waking hour scouring this great site. Looking forward to interacting with everyone and appreciate the kind and supportive disposition of all I've come in contact with so far.