JDJDJD

Hey there,

I'm wondering if someone could point me in the right direction for researching this topic. Is there an avenue for an independent bottler DSP in the US to buy barrels directly from Scottish distilleries or from Scottish independent bottlers? Are there any companies in the US already doing this?

I know I've seen some US retailers (Binnys, K&L) end up with their own barrel of Scotch through various means (usually through Signatory or another Scotch indie), but I'm more interested in a bottler in the US filling up part of its warehouse with barrels of Scotch that it will bottle independently when ready.

Hope that makes sense. Thanks!
JD

3 hours ago, Southernhighlander said:

STL,

You can retail sell by the drink and by the bottle out of a bar that is in your distillery in MO and this in itself makes MO one of the best states to start a distillery.  Copper Run has a bar over their distillery in a second story.  We have a customer who will have their distillery in the same building as their bar restaurant and they will be selling the spirits that they produce at the bar.  There bar and restaurant currently stays packed with hundreds of customers every Friday and Saturday night. This is a great business model that nets you hundreds of dollars per gallon for the spirits that you produce. 

It is my understanding that you can self distribute to bars, liquor stores and restaurants in MO, but I have not seen the rules concerning this. Can someone point me in that direction?

Of course MO is the only state where it is legal to home distill under state law which really helps people to practice distilling before they open a distillery.  Of course home distilling is illegal under federal law but our state law enforcement agencies enforce state law concerning this matter not federal.

Thanks! Above this post I have posted a more specific question regarding bar ownership, perhaps you know the answer.

4 hours ago, StL Distiller said:

JD, 

You may not own a separate retail by the drink license and a distillery in MO. No one on the DSP can. As for "close proximity" the Feds will allow a radius of several miles for a tasting room. Missouri however, will only allow it to be in/on the premises of the distillery. Hope that helps. 

Where/when are you opening?

 

Thanks for the reply. We're not set on a location or time yet, just trying to work out whether or not it's possible!

To be more specific: My friend and I want to open a distillery. My friend's wife wants to open a bar, and she does not want to have any ownership of the distillery. The bar would not be on the premises of the distillery, probably would be 3-5 miles away. We're having trouble understanding if that degree of ownership separation would be allowed.

Welcome! Love the name Old Church.
-JD

Thanks Irene!

Folks,

Many thanks for the responses. In the time since my original post I have come across the following from the Missouri ATC:

No Financial Interest in Retail Business - Distillers, wholesalers, winemakers, brewers or their employees, officers or agents, shall not, under any circumstances, directly or indirectly, have any financial interest in the retail business for sale of intoxicating liquors except a distiller whose manufacturing establishment is located within Missouri may apply for a license to sell intoxicating liquor by the drink in close proximity to the distillery.

https://atc.dps.mo.gov/licensing/liquor_mfgr_solicitor.php

"Close proximity" is not clearly defined anywhere, though.

It seems the issue is what is fanciful and what is not, perhaps? "Single Malt" is fanciful but "Malt Whiskey" is not. So separating "Malt" from "Whiskey" on the labeling seems to solve the issue. When the time comes I will probably label as follows:

Distillery Name
American Single Malt
[label illustration]
Whiskey Distilled from Malt Mash
[abv and other info]

11 minutes ago, bluestar said:

The first should not be approved, because you can not use a legal descriptive category on the label if it is not the category of the spirit. In this case, it is not "Malt Whiskey" so you can not have a fanciful name like "American Single Malt Whiskey",  just like you can not have the word "Bourbon" in a name if the product is not bourbon. The second could be used, because it does not have a named whiskey type in the fanciful name "American Single Malt".

That makes sense. I very much appreciate your help and followup with this.
JD

Thanks for the info Thatch!

Thanks!

2 hours ago, bluestar said:

You will find that the TTB is not very good on correctly approving versions of "single malt whiskey" aged in anything other than new charred oak barrels. But yes, you can create a combination of text including fanciful to allow "American Single Malt Whiskey" somewhere on the label, and as long as somewhere else the correct description like "Whiskey Distilled from Malt Mash" exists, then it may be approved. I have seen a few labels out there where the only place I can find the correct description is buried in some text on the rear label. I have been puzzled by these, because clearly the information on the front label is not a correct description, because they are described as NOT being aged in charred oak, but the front label appears to label them as Malt Whiskey.

Thank you for your reply! Do you know if re-charring an ex-wine or ex-bourbon barrel would put that barrel back in the category of "charred new oak"? My gut says no, but I'd like to know for sure.

Best,
JD

4 hours ago, Thatch said:

That's the direction we are headed.  We're doing something along the lines of based on our consultants input.

Distillery Name
American Single Malt Whiskey
Whiskey Distilled From Malt Mash

Thanks for the reply. Are you using 100% used barrels? Perhaps you could help me with another question: ex-wine barrels that are sold as "Neutral Red/White." These barrels are typically very cheap compared to everything else, due to how many times they've been used for wine. Are they beyond the point of being useful for aging whiskey? Or would they only be useful for very long (12+yrs) aging periods?

Cheers
JD

I gather that if you have aged your malted barley spirit in nothing but ex-bourbon and ex-wine barrels, you cannot legally call it "Malt Whiskey." It must instead be called "Whiskey Distilled From a Malt Mash."

Could your label, though, read something like:

Distillery Name
American Single Malt Whiskey
Distilled From a Malt Mash

Or:

Distillery Name
American Single Malt
Whiskey Distilled From a Malt Mash

Thanks!
JD

Whoops! Saint Louis, Missouri. ?

Can the owner of a distillery also own and operate a bar in another part of town? (not just a satellite tasting room)
Thanks,
JD

Just joined the forums after some lurking. My friend and I are in the early stages of research and planning to start a whiskey distillery in St. Louis, MO. The information on these boards is so helpful! Looking forward to being part of the community here.

-JD