Tupper Lake Distillery

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 0:59 PM, iskiebaedistillery said:

Hi Tupper Lake, sorry for the late reply. Yes to the vorlaufing and no to the fermenter drain. As you can see around the 5:10 mark in the video, I'm removing the "sparge arm" and transferring it to a bucket. So after vorlaufing to set the grain bed, I am transferring the beer through the same apparatus to another vessel. So instead of the "sparge arm" recirculating the beer over the bed, it transfers the "clear beer/wash" into another container. The design I made is to prevent the difficult task of making a false bottom for oddly shaped dairy tanks that I am using for mash tuns and fermenters. Besides avoiding a lot of custom fabrication on each mash tun, the drop in design is removable for cleaning if you do get a stuck vorlauf which may be common on cheaper equipment, especially with corn, rye and wheat. Hope that makes sense!

Wow, that's embarrassing...how did I not see that the first time? I really like that idea, if your fermenter was 45 gal instead of a 20L pail, it would work exact same, and after draining the liquid just upend the drum (using a fixture) to dump the grain into a wheelbarrow....hmmm, the wheels are turning now.

Iskiebae, so to be clear (no pun intended) you are vorlaufing your liquid until a good bed is formed and then draining through the original drain in the fermenter? The purpose of your drop in grain filter is to make a good bed in the grain that is quick flowing and doesn't plug?

That's interesting too......

Van, any updates? Curious to see how you're making out. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one checking back on this thread every few days/week!

If i distill once through a column i'll typically get a fuller flavor than if I strip then spirit run through a pot still.

REALLY? That's the first time I've ever heard that. I've shied away from columns thinking a pot still will give more flavor.

Can anyone else concur? Am I the only one to not know this? LOL.

http://www.racelabel.com/rltc-sp/

This one has a spring plate so you can do oval (or square, etc) bottles.

Haven't used it so I can't comment on it, but others who have speak highly of them.

Can I ask why no Chinese bottles? Are they inferior or is it people just want "made in USA" instead?

I'm going with a company in Montreal, but just curious as to why people are specifically pointing out china.

Wow, thanks for the links. I'll show the farmer (or any other farmers I come across) and I certainly won't have any issue getting rid of it! It's always nice to have documented proof.

Heat exchanger eh, so do you pump the mash water through it or do you submerge it in the mashing water in the tun? Do you have a picture possibly?

Very interesting indeed. I take the mash water to 155* and add corn then run the agitator until it's broke down, adding heat when necessary to keep it at 150-155*. Then I add enzymes and continue agitating for a bit and letting cool. Then wrap in blankets and let it slowly come down to pitching temp. (usually the next day, 12hr's or so later)

But if I understand you correctly, your taking it up to 200 and shutting off the heat, adding grain etc and doing your mashing as the temp drops. If your getting 11% it's obviously working. (you must be higher than 2lb's per gal to get that right? I'm getting complete conversion according to my iodine tests but at 8-9%)

Now I'm tempted to try 200*, I've never gone higher than 155* as the saccharification temp for corn is 145*-170*....crap... I'm realizing as I write this I've mistaken saccharification temps for gelatinization temps. Now I understand why I've seen others post they go to 200*. Huh, go to bed tonight a little less stupid!

So, if you're using a screen to get the liquid out, how do you get the spent grains out of your mash tun?

Quote from Skaalvenn

"Remember, you will rarely wish you bought the lesser quality product, but may end up wishing you spent a couple more bucks to get what you want."

Sounds like words to live by!

If I dewater it I'm thinking it should cool pretty quickly, regardless it wouldn't be instant delivery anyway.

How much can you give cows/pigs/etc? Just curious as if I drop off 200lb's of grain all at once will they eat until they hurt themselves or will they eat till full and stop? Not that it's what I should be concerning myself with at this point but just curious.

Wondering if I should just get a couple pigs....besides the kids I mean....

James, excellent points!

45 gal drums and clamp on lid...yeah, your dead on. My problem is I'll spend a day making something (because I can) that only cost $10.00 to buy. Then as you say I look back and go "what was I thinking?"

I'm cheap FRUGAL, but sometimes it clouds my judgement.

Mash/ferment and distill on the grain and then dump through a slurry trough/plastic barrels etc with decreasing dia holes to dewater then into a tote or open top container that can be dumped at the farm. I'm trying to use gravity so pumps/etc won't be required. I'll have the set up on the second floor of the building (if I get the property I'm bidding on) so pump water up and forklift the grain up then everything flows downward.

Of course seeing a car crusher working, my thoughts are, "what if..."

Corn, barley and rye. I've seen commercial separators and that's out of my price range. No, after seeing the feedback on here and doing more research I think I'll go the extra bit and distill on the grain too. Haven't talked to the farmer but if he will accept it wet I'll just put it in a tote. If he won't I'll find another farmer LOL! I could drain it into some sort of sieve or series of plastic barrels with smaller and smaller holes maybe. I have time to keep thinking/planning. Being a one man set up, it can't be too labour intensive, dump and let it do it's thing. Too many other things to be doing.

As far as mashing with direct flame, that was my intention but I'm not set in stone now, I'll see what the still manufacturer recommends. Steam injection could be done economically but I don't have any experience. Not sure whether I'd have to keep moving the wand or would the wand be fixed permanently inside, etc.

Looks like the simplest way isn't the cheapest way. Mash/ferment and distill in one vessel and flush it out at the end, I think while expensive would be a better step then trying to nickel and dime it like I was thinking.

Local farmer selling off a lot of SS dairy equipment I was going to re-purpose (pasturizing tank, lines, valves,etc) but getting the grain out of the tank (or even 45gal ss drums) is a step in the wrong direction.

Time to re-jig the business plan again.

Check with your local municipality, our sewer agreement has the following clause:

Good point, I've thought of that and am moving this spring/summer to a farm property with acreage for that (and other) reasons. Another micro around here takes their spent grains to the town dump/composting spot with the towns approval.

It is looking like the simplest answer though is to ferment and distill on the grain and then dump it all at the end. Which makes me think perhaps outside the box, but, SS 45 gal drums to mash in, then ferment in the drum and then clamp on a top with an agitator and potstill head. Have several SS drum going in succession, as each one is ready, run it off. Propane heat and the drums on their own rolling chassis.....hmm, rethinking the whole set up now.

I can make everything myself but in one way I'm thinking it wouldn't have "the look" once I opened. You know, everyone wants to see the shiny stuff. Functionally it would probably work but marketing/looks has a huge effect on sales obviously.

Wow, that's switching everything from my original plans.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the quick reply!

This will be a limited budget start up (yeah, right) so I could get a still with an agitator I suppose, can't afford a steam system/jacketed system though.

Distilling on the grain would really solve a couple issues but raises others. I'm starting at how much end product I want and am working backwards to see if this is feasible. I'm 4 years to retirement so want to start doing small batches and barreling it (and paying permits and bond etc) then when I retire I can open the storefront and start selling the 3 year old whisky. I know the norm is to jump in with both feet and sell vodka because you "need" instant income, but I have no interest in selling anything other than whisky. Volume will be really small, enough to pay bonds and permits etc and have a little bit of profit. Both the wife and I will have income as it's getting off it's feet. (which will be filling a small barrel a week).

Sorry if it seems like a dumb question (newby) but I'm trying to foresee any potential issues.

So, with 125gal fermenter (500L) once the mash is done and fermented, the wort drained off to the still, what is the standard practice to get the grain out? Add water and flush it out the drain pipe?

Thinking easiest for a one man operation would be ferment in the same tank I mash in (ferment on the grain) then drain off.

Have a farmer who will take it away, just not sure how much mess all the extra washing water will add. With 200lb's (100gal @ 2lb's per gal) I'm thinking tote maybe? Or dump it in a container that can let the water drain out the bottom?

What's standard practice with a couple hundred pounds of spent grain?

Edit: clearing up the wording

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ezq3XYGIg&list=PLVo5HAi17a4gTR6qpAVLK4x_mfMw_Sqsg&index=1

12 part series on using a modified washing machine.

I've also been keeping my eye peeled [hate that phrase] for an industrial salad spinner on a local auction site. I missed one that closed after my family and I left for vacation.

VARocketry, I just saw this thread and was going to post that but you beat me to it! LOL!

I still say in small volume it would work but unless you're going to fill it 20-30# at a time, that could be quite the time consumer.

Naw, they each know their place. The spirit still is like the wife, I just say "hey you". LOL (I hope the wife never sees this or I'm dead! LOL

Didn't really name the spirit still but the big one I call "Kandy" cause she's a stripper.

To my knowledge, no, it isn't possible to buy unaged whiskey in Canada (spoken as a Canadian, but not one who has researched this extensively).

There is one Canadian-made 'white whiskey', made by Highwood Distillers in Alberta. They actually take the roundabout route of aging it in casks for three years, and then filtering it so thoroughly that all the colour is stripped out.

Glenora distillery in Nova Scotia sells an unaged whisky called "Glennorra Silver".

http://www.mynslc.com/Products/PID-1012702

Thanks for the advise, I'm not into biting the hand that feeds me.

I'll keep it short and sweet and won't respond on this site until I have my permit.

This site and the vast majority of support offered is invaluable. The government threads might not be of any use to someone outside the US but the Production and general threads are excellent.

A pm made it clear that there is an "old boys club" and that I am not a part of it and won't be until I have a license in hand.

I do not remember ever being ignorant to anyone here or disrespectful, if anyone was offended by something I've said I apologise. (I've only made 13 posts!)

One investor backed out early May which has been a bit of a setback but there is so much more work, I'll just add that on the "to-do" list.

And to clarify, no it was not Ralph who pm'd me. Ralph you had a very good point in your advice but I do know of one who does consider himself "glorified".

When I come back it will be under the name of the company so there will be no confusion as to my intentions.

Thank you, goodbye

editted for clarification (I tried to carefully select words but it didn't come across right)

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Caused by tails if water is good.

Check your cuts, you could be getting tails in the heart (to late cut off from heart) or running too fast/hot dragging tails through complete run.

(actually, how are you determining your cuts)?

Ah good stuff!

Well, I'm retiring soon from my current job of 25 years. Years ago I dabbled in beer/wine making at home and then tried "other".

Basically, I enjoyed it and would like to now try and do it legally. I've never EVER sold anything before, and yes it was Artisan not backwoods rotgut. Both "grain only" grain bills and other recipes with grain/sugar. I've gone through the logical sequence trying to get info from the NSLC (Nova Scotia Liquer Commission) but basically unless I plan on hiring hundreds of people or investing millions, their not interested. Alcohol production is not small business to them I guess.

What is the first thing I should do? (and don't say "go away" please) LOL

I'm guessing make a business plan, but who do I talk to first. (never owned a small business before either)

Thanks