helocat

Great information thank you both DD and Will.

I have been ingesting as much information I can I think I am starting to mix it up. I need to start taking notes like in collage as I read the books. Will nailed, in recollection I did read where some distillers saved the tails cut and tossed it into the next charge of the still for flavers. I then mixed that up with what a real sour mash was, DD thank you.

DD: You say a hefty amount of solids. Is this still the case with a wash that has been ran through a Lauder tun? (whiskey)

All research right now. 2010 will be the year I build my still (250 gallon) and work with the TTB and state. Working on location at this time. Whiskey is the product.

We use a plate grinder for grinding all our grains. Corn, Wheat, Barley. Fully adjustable for any grind. Coop

What brand of plate grinder do you use?

Sour Mash Q.

When doing a proper sour mash, do you put the whole left over stillage or just the tails cut into the next batch?

If it’s the tails cut (thinking that it is) do you put it into the mash as you make it up prior to the lauder tun or the wash on its way to the fermenter, or after the fermentation right before you charge the still?

Thank you!

Looking at still configurations and I see a good mix, some with agitators and some without. I don't see dedicated whiskey stills with them, at least that I have seen. Is the use of the agitator mostly used for thicker contents like grappa? Seams like it would help bring the contents up to temp faster by moving it around the heat source.

I am wondering about this as well. Is there a decent market to justify a drier system to bag and sell the spent grain? Wet, is there a marketable value or just given away? I am wondering if one just gravity drains as much as possible then just load it into reusable plastic drums. (forklift) Yes I have read The Practical Distiller and don’t really plan on running a hog farm on the side! I am sure that was the ticket back in the day.

250gl still

Mark

From the Trademark Office

WRT Makers Mark

Description of Mark THE MARK CONSISTS OF A WAX-LIKE COATING COVERING THE CAP OF THE BOTTLE AND TRICKLING DOWN THE NECK OF THE BOTTLE IN A FREEFORM IRREGULAR PATTERN. THE STIPPLING SHOWN IN THE MARK OF THE DRAWING IS FOR SHADING PURPOSES ONLY.

How did they get away with this? the description is so arbitrary, that it could include any drip of wax on any bottle, in any color.. how the hell did they trademark "free-form irregular pattern"?

No one opposed it. At least successfully. Most likely the Trademark Office rejected it a few times but eventually accepted it. I have always left the legal stuff up to the attorneys. When we have submitted for design patents, we just plan for a rejection at first, then resubmit with the argument and it goes though. (have one in right now actually) Unfortunately for us little guys it’s hard to do and properly defend since it all comes down to $. In the case of Makers Mark, the Samuels family came back into the industry with money not being a huge concern. This is also why they can and not surprisingly do defend it aggressively.

Edit: On using using a different color of wax, Makers Mark also uses different colors other than red. Probably more key is the fact that what is shared above from the patent office says nothing about a specific color.

I must say I disagree with you entirely, completely, and any other word that means a big whole bunch. I've never heard anyone else say anything similar. To me it seems the ultimate in taking pride in and standing behind one's work. Also, I don't see the difference in using one's surname or given name in that context. Your comment is peculiar, to say the least.

This is about marketing value. I am a small business owner (none beverage or any part of it, yet) developing, marketing and selling branded products for last 10 yrs, and just speaking from my experience. The key thing here is an unknown name used in the marketing of a product. Pride is helpful in marketing to a small degree to those who have heard your story, from there it’s just an unknown name. The consumer already sees plenty of names (sir and given) on products, unknown ones are just assumed fictitious. The upmost pride in a product is the product itself. This is the labor and effort to create something so special that it stands on its own. Perhaps down the road when ones name is now synonymous to represent quality then it has a true marketing value. My opinion is formed from this experience.

I need someone to convert a pencil drawing into a cad illustration of a mash-tun.

The illustration would be posted on www.distilling.com

bill@distilling.com

510-886-7418

I may be able to help out, you can e-mail what you are looking for to mark@metaltech4x4.com

Mark

I learned long ago from a Professor at Boston University Media department. He told us, "Don't put your name on the product." His point, you may one day be able to sell your brand for lots and lots of money, and if your brand is your name, you've sold the rights to your name.

Ralph

Tuthilltown

Opinion: Besides an unknown (sir) name in any market used to brand a product comes off arrogant.

Mark

Can’t comment on the legalities with the TTB, that is just research with them.

I have also given this a lot of thought and the jury is still out on it with me. I currently own and operate a business that does metal work (not sheet metal or pressure vessels) so I have a bit of knowledge to start with, but at the same time lack a lot of what would be needed to pull it off. If you are thinking this will be a cheaper way to acquire a still, unless you have the practical experience with sheet metals and making pressure vessels this would not be a cheaper way to go. Sure a new commercial still properly set up starts in the $40-50K range but just start adding up the cost of sheet copper. There is a reason meth heads out there are stripping wires from anything not tied down, copper is off the chart expensive these days. Now the metal fabrication I do now, I know the learning curve also comes with a scrap rate and that means $$. One mistake with expensive materials can send you well past the cost of a commercial built, supported and warranted product.

If you do make something, keep in mind you have to use a food grade filler rod for your TIG welding. Also if you make anything that is to take a pressure at all, it will have to be certified as will the welder that put it together. (Like a steam jacket or steam heating coils inside the primary pot)

I can see making hogs heads and general support equipment (racks, drains, drier) but the still its self, just not sure it’s worth it.

Mark

Both brands are Canadian Whiskeys, which have to be distilled in Canada by law.

I would wager that neither Hood River nor Indio, the respective sellers of these brands, are "craft distillers" or even own a still.

-snip-

You are correct about Hood River not owning a still. According to this article they sold them all off in the late 60's. They do large volumes of work with GNS and their value line of products.

http://www.portlandmonthlymag.com/eat-and-drink/articles/distillery1-0509/

Mark

There are 50 states in the union, each one has different laws. When submitting for federal license it had to include a precise drawing showing everything including all sizes makes and models of all equipment. We did not deviate from those drawings up to and including bonded area and retail store area. The state license needed a federal license number for the application true. In that spot I just wrote in pending. The state knowing I could not produce a drop with out federal license just went ahead with the paper work on their own. The worse thing the state would do is deny application until federal permit was issued. Nothing for me to loose but time. The federal government and state government want you in business ASAP. The sooner you are producing the sooner they collect the taxes. They are your friends most trouble will come from local governments city or county.

Coop

Very helpful and sure makes alot of since. Mark