Wilder

Sorry about placing this in the General discussion.The reason is no real good place to put it otherwise. I originally posted a 3000 square foot building 50 by 60. I'm wanting to learn from the mistakes and successes of the members here in the Forum. If you would not mind please sharing your floor plan drawings, in order that I may review the rearrangement of access Andy Griffith, along with the workflow in the building. I know many of you have through trial and error found the best route, and I'm hoping that you will help me to find this route without spending an extreme amount of money, since I don't have extra to spend on a mistake, it could be the end of the venture. Thanks so much in advance Wilder. Baby Beagle Distillery LLC

According to a representative from one Georgia Alcohol Tobacco and revenue office. How does the distillery license differ and the package for retail sales license. Does these license  differentiate between the two businesses, does the distance between the distillery remain 1,000 yd. This is seeming to strup lawyers across several States. Can any of the experts sound off.

A big thank you to Paul Hall and the great Great Folks at Affordable Distillery Equipment. Last week I made the 12-hour Drive from Georgia to Missouri. The drive was long, but oh oh oh oh so worth it. The good people there are glad to accommodate any request that you made would like( within reason). The business produces a quality of work that I have only seen in nuclear power plants. The work these guys do is unbelievable. They can do in the blink of an eye what I have been told cannot be done. The first picture (and best picture in my opinion) is of my still standing in my shop. The second picture would be of my still standing in Paul shop. The third picture is a perfect example of just how surprised you can be when traveling through the Ozarks. Just as you do not expect to find a Distillery equipment manufacturer in the Ozark Mountains, you do not expect to find a zebra. Low and behold both exist along Highway 160 in Missouri. Let the DSP application begin, I wish Paul could help me as much on my DSP as he has on a fantastic piece of equipment. I did fail to mention, that this was my design and Paul helped make it a reality. He can turn your dream, and your drawing into reality. The one thing you cannot find at Paul Hall's shop, is a cell phone signal, but they're nice enough to let you use the phone too.

Thank you

Paul Hall, Southernhighlander

I've been talking with Paul, so much lately, I've been thinking of calling my distillery "Paul's Place".  I can seriously say Paul has helped me more than anyone in the industry. No question is a dumb question when talking to him or his staff. He is easy talk to and great deal with.

PM me the price of the unit, and individual components if you don't mind. I would also like production numbers. I have two twelve inch diameter 40 inch tubes. I may want you to do something custom.

Thanks Wilder

Don't shed too many tears for Popcorn Sutton, or try to make him into some libertarian poster boy. He's a serial offender and, like most criminals, a selfish prick if not an actual sociopath. He does play the "Aw Shucks" country boy bit to the hilt.

And don't kid yourself if you think moonshiners don't hurt people.

Read your post. It's easy to tell who is the prick!

Those who have been around the still a time or two can taste the mash, and tell more about what was going on inside the batch, than a person with a college degree. I won't tell you where oldtimers like popcorn would say to put the thermometer. I have been around the old timers all my life, and have learned a great deal. This is not the type of thing that can be put on a resume, but when I do get the funds to start my company I will carry this knowledge with me. The sad thing is that the old timers are getting well, OLD and the art that has been developed over the years is being lost. I hope that I will live long enought to pass a secret or two along Legally, as jail will not be on my resume. I hope POPCORN'S legend never dies. Men like him are what made America. I only hope the spirit that this company makes is a spirit that we can all be proud to drink. Do Popcorn proud, only hire people in accounting with a degree.

Good Luck

My big problem is finding funding. I had a truly award winning business plan for a business I now own, but I could not get a dime from a bank for this business. The distillery is no different. I'm hear watching and learning, the day will come when I have the funds to start this business.

Do state revenue agents really snoop around looking for home distillation? Truthfully I do not know because there are none where I am. I think they spent all the state money on tsunami warnings. The TTB though, as far as I know, does not have the staff nor the inclination to bother the very few (comparatively) home distillers. Anyone ever hear of something to the contrary? That would be a true waste of resources if it occurs.

The fines are based on what "their" estimation of a distillers capacity. The tax that they estimate is also part of the fine and count on an IRS audit. This not counting the straight fine and probation fees, etc, etc.

They states are broke at this point and will take any money they can get. Home distilling I think would be a great hobby, but could be expensive if all the paper work is not done properly.

I think the phrase "going commercial" implies a licensed distillery. I think the original poster understands this site. I also think many licensed and soon to be licensed distillers did indeed consider doing things illegally, and also did them. How else to experiment with distilling and gain experience? I did it, I know many others who did it, and who cares.

Who care's? Let me think, maybe the TTB or State revenue agents.

I personally see nothing wrong with what you said, but anyone on any forum should be careful. No one ever knows who might be reading this or any other forum.

Just a thought.

I think you may have misunderstood this site. The people here are considering starting a legal distillery, or are allready distilling spirits legally. These people would never consider doing anything illegal. Keep this in mind when making your next post. A person wanting to start up a business can learn a lot, a person engaged in illegal activity can learn a lot also, if you get my drift. (Just a Thought)

send me an email at ...paul@bvmbrewery.com for further info and pics

cheers

PM price.

Thanks

This was exactly what I expected. In a good way.

The question is, if a new manufacture starts in a three tier state, can spirits manufactured be entered in compititions. The reason I ask this question is, if this is possible it would allow some leverage when negotiating a contract with a distributor.

A top quiality spirit would comand a much higher price that an, " I just made this ", I'm a new company", type of talk.

Any thoughts? Mainly legal.

Unlikly spot to find gold in the form of starting you business, but here it is listen and don't just dismiss offhand.

http://www.bobparson...&ci=13338&id=-1

I started my distillery with about $50K. But I bought a tiny toy still (30 liters), had dirt cheap rent, and live in a village where much of the main street is boarded up/unused and they didn't care what I did. I also wasn't starting from an 8% mash, and so have to reduce my raw materials by 80%.

If you want 150 gallons of fine spirit (let's say whiskey), you're going to need to start with a lot of mash/wash at 8% to get there. Berglund says in a spirit run you'll get about 30% as 120 proof heart and another 20-25% as tails. So just right there you need 450 gallons of low wines. So if you have a 50 gallon still, you could expect 15 gallons heart per run. Thankfully when you bottle you can reduce your 120 proof heart to 80 proof and be just the same as lots of other brands. So you need to only make 110 gallons.

So far you need 7 spirit runs a week with a 50 gallon still. And we haven't even begun to distill the mash. You can do it faster if you have a 100 gallon still, but that may well blow the budget cause you also need lots of fermenters and a mash tun and lots of other equipment.

Maybe there are folks on the board who can tell us how to produce 150 gallons a week with a small still. I'd like to know how to do that. Maybe my numbers are all wrong.

You hit the nail on the head. A 400 gallon still is what I had intended to try. The 150 per week is what I thought I could do based on this size still.

I did speak to a local repesentive about this and his words were, "the liquior lobby is very strong". I think this says its all, this about big money on the distribution end. The state is GA.

Thanks for the input I will get this to my legistlator and senator that is trying to help me with this regulation. This is very helpful that now I know it is not law.

Wilder

Can any one here give me a link to the state law that makes it manditory for alchohol manufactures to sell their product to a wholesaler. I want to know why(legal code) that a manufacture can not be their own distributor

You must know the law in order to change the law!

Thanks Wilder

P.S. the quicker the better!

Some of the TTB reg don't make a lot of sense to me. 80 or 120 proof what is the difference if the taste of the spirit is of a quality nature. The comsumer is not getting 60 proof that is advertised and 100. The proof should be in the PROOF.

I'd say building a still is a HUGE undertaking and not something I'd ever attempt. If this is something you think you want to pursue, I'd talk with some of the still manufacturers so you can get an idea for the technology that really goes into one (it's more than a boiling pot). Even the basics like metal choice are important. You always want copper where it is hot (going up) and stainless where it is cooling (going down). The choice and quality of metal actually has an effect on your final product since copper binds with sulfur compounds.

Then there are sizing questions. Sizing will determine not only your capacity but your heat input and your run times. Again, this is something a professional still maker would know.

And then there's the pesky safety question. I'd want to be REALLY certain that the still was welded properly and that the heating elements were correctly attached and aligned to avoid a possible explosion. Again, something the still makers would know how to do.

Again, this is NOT something I'd ever attempt although I know some have.

Where are you getting your information. I was under the impression, from some other sources, that stainless bottom with a copper top is the way to go?

I think its going to be you distilling process.

I would be interested in drawings.

Max,

What BBob says is quite right. You'll never make a great whiskey from a poor mash.

The ADI classes that Lee mentioned happen twice per year, and although they're not cheap, they're worth it...and you'll meet me!

On the subject of processes not scaling 1:1, think through this: your 5 gallon ferment at home works fine, and when you scale that to 50 gallons, you're probably still okay. Scale it to 500 or 5000 gallons, and you're in a different world...different surface/volume ratio. You'll need cooling jackets, temperature controls, circulation, etc. Therefore, scale the entire plant to match your batch sizes. It would be silly to have 50 gallon drums for fermentation and a 500 gallon still, for instance.

And finally, the one thing you absolutely, positively have to understand is this:

this business is not about the craft or the science of making whiskey - it's about selling it.

Will

p.s. Max Action - do you have cousins named Justin Case or Brad Naylor?

The secret of good product being the mash. I would stick to what works to give the best results. I do not plan on competing with Jack Daniels any time soon.

Small batchs good poducts. It would seem to be a no brainer.

Try using your bulk a second time, add sugar and allow to work again! The time that the corn soak will also help break down the starch.

Old timers did not boil or even heat their mash, I question if it is even worth the trouble.

I know someone sill not agree with this statement.