wadewood

Glad to see the enforcing the our actual laws. I've also heard they are cracking down on 5.36 (d) compliance as well.

I've spoken to a many bartenders in the past as well as some small retail outlets about this and some are becoming skeptical about award ceremonies around the world.

Several of the reasons I've heard is the myriad of award tiers just confuses people and leads them to not care. What one person from retail has told me: There are bronze, silver, gold, double gold, best in class and spirit of the year tiers for many of the competitions - SF, NY, London, China, etc. So very harsh, poor products still "Awards", which diminishes the meaning of the award. Eventually after telling customers what this all meant, they would shrug and go back to their usual bottle of Beam. In other words, this kind of awarding diminishes the repeatability of what an award means to people who are not "Core drinkers" and turns the award into an abstract symbol that doesn't mean anything significant.

The second is that I've heard from many distilleries that they believe the awards are being purchase or that submitted samples are being doctored. I will not point fingers, but I have to admit that I have walked away disappointed from many Double Gold and Best in Class winners and wondering how they ever won any award at all.

Wow for once bartenders and small retail and hopefully consumers got it right. 99% of the award shows are nothing but pay for play advertising and carry no merit with me. I could point out one award show where one of the judges is listed as Master Distiller/consultant for 2 companies that each won awards at that show.

I sent the lawyers involved with suit a note advising them to focus less on the 'hand made' argument (vague, not legally defined) and more on the Distilled in Austin by Fifth Generation.

I just ran across some Straight Bourbon Whiskey, that is obviously flavored with Cherry and Chocolate. How is that possible , and still carry the "straight Bourbon Label". My read on the BAM seems to indicate it isn't permitted ?

The TTB has interpreted that once you make Straight Bourbon Whiskey, you can't unmake it. (I don't agree with that, but that's they way they see it) So you will see Straight Bourbon whiskey with natural cherry flavors as approved label. However the class type is no longer 101, it's 641.

Templeton confesses and will change their ways, 1st link is to original story and 2nd link is the follow up:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2014/08/26/templeton-rye-iowa-indiana/14604225

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2014/08/28/templeton-rye-change-labels-clarifies-much-made-iowa/14770045/

Natrat - fair enough, I understand your point of view. I'm just a consumer and as such I hate it when companies try to deceive me.

Natrat - if you are making a Bourbon in your state from grain to glass but a competitor is buying a sourced whiskey and pretending they made in all in house and selling at 1/3 of your price, would you be happy with that? The wholesalers and retailers also are in on it and encouraged the source whiskey company to be deceitful about their product. They also tell their customers it's made in your state (without saying what made means).

You know about the 5.36(d) law and know that this company is in violation of that. You still would not ask the TTB to enforce existing laws?

Guy - yes you are correct, but also figured this group would be familiar enough with TTB code that if a gave 5.36(d) in title, they could easily find code. I don't know of anyone making light whiskey or blended light whiskies. High West appropriately labels several of their products as 'Blend of Straight Whiskies'. But overall this law is being ignored by many producers; Templeton is good example of one that violates this code.

I could also name examples of some selling 'blended whiskies' and 'spirit whiskies' that are very misleading as to point of where they were distilled that the TTB should take appropriate action as indicated in code and require State of Distillation to be shown.

It is a TTB requirement that if a whisky is not distilled in State listed on the label, then the actual State of distillation must be listed on label.

​If you are making a product grain to glass, but competing against others that are sourcing in your state but that fail to comply to this law, then they should be reported to the TTB.

If it's 100% corn, and it's in a new charred barrel (assuming other regs are met), its bourbon. In a new uncharred barrel or a used barrel, it's corn whiskey.

I agree with you 100%. I've been trying to tell Chip Tate at Balcones the same thing. His product is labeled as Corn Whiskey, yet it meets all the definitions of bourbon and his website says it is aged in new charred oak barrels. You can not make corn whiskey in new charred barrels.

this is great win for consumers in WA sate. I lived there for 9 years and hated dealing with the state run stores.

I'm sure it will be for sale at Borders books

As a consumer, this information it to easily available for free on the internet for me to pay for this book. That's just my opinion.

Good luck with you book.

Great thread and history lesson. I was surprised at how much difference the yeast makes in taste, until about 6 months ago. A local micro brewery here in Houston, St. Arnold's, recently started a new series of limited beers. They are taking their standard products and are changing the yeast only. They are calling this series Movable Yeast - My link

So far, they have released 2 batches. #2 - Altared Amber We've matched our Amber Ale wort with Belgian Trappist yeast to create a hybrid style – Belgian American Amber Ale. Belgian Trappist yeast has clove and spice phenolics with a hint of banana and we think the spice works well with the caramel malt and hops of the Amber Ale.” #1 - Weedwacker A variation of Saint Arnold's best-selling Fancy Lawnmower. All other ingredients remain the same, but the new beer will be fermented with a Bavarian hefeweizen yeast.

I have had both side by side with normal version and the difference is amazing.

I don't think any micro distiller is pulling the wool over my eyes, but I am a well educated consumer. If you are proud of the product you are producing and want us consumers to judge it on it's own merits and not against an established category, then please tell us about it on your label. Tell me if a microbrewery mashed your product or if you did so yourself. Tell me if you bought whiskey from another distiller and blended with your distilled product. Tell me if you used new or used barrels or something besides Oak. Tell me what grains were used. Tell me how long it was aged. Tell me the distillation proof. Tell me why and what you were shooting for.

If you are making Granny Smith and the big guys are make Red Delicious apples, then tell me the above so I can judge your product on it's own merits. Those Red Delicious apples have some pretty clear rules they must follow. Some of these other apple types may be great, but I want to know what I'm biting into first.

Just because he has mentioned a few micro-whiskies does not take away from my main point. He has NOT supported the small guys.

Read his blog - 90% plus about the big guys - get your facts straight -

Considering that over 99% (probably more like 99.999%) of the whiskey currently produced is made by the "big guys", it is going to be logical that a whiskey writer will write mostly about the big guys. Chuck has been very critical of those that sell product that they have not distilled, especially when they lead the consumer to believe otherwise. I pointed out examples where Chuck has supported the small guys that are starting with their own grains, mashing, fermenting, and distilling and selling their own product.

As for my consumer preference, I'm only going to buy whiskey products from those craft distillers that do all these steps themselves.

Please ignore most of Cowery's comments. He has never been a fan of micro-distilleries or their products....

I suggest that all of us should taste more of the micro-distillery whiskies and ignore Mr. Cowery's comments (who always supports the big boys).

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/11/big-news-from-two-of-my-favorite-little.html. In his recent blog post, Chuck Cowdery speaks very positive about Garrison Brothers and Koval Loin's Pride Whiskeys. And here http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/11/it-can-be-done-hobby-distillery.html about another small craft distllery - Tom's Foolery. And here http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/11/finger-lakes-distilling-is-another-one.html - good things about Finger Lakes.

Those were just in past couple of months.

As a consumer, I am a huge fan of the craft distilling movement. Example, I drove 500 miles in a day to obtain bottles of Garrison Brothers Straight Bourbon the day it was released. I also have bought or tried at friend's or bars about every craft distilled whiskey out there.

Clay's article is mostly right on target. I would point out he is really only comparing craft distilled aged whiskey. If you are making craft distilled Vodka, ignore this article; I'm sure your product is equal to anything the big producers put out. The big guys do make good bourbon and some of what they make is exceptional whiskey.

To those that believe along the lines don't compare us to the Jim Beam's, that's not what we want to be, to an extent you are correct. As a local craft distiller, you will sell product to your local market to a certain audience that wants to support local almost regardless of quality. I will buy or try your product once as well. But if you want me or those like me as a repeat customer, you better strive to put out products that are superior in taste to what the big guys are making. Frankly speaking, you are not there yet.