Guppy

Hi Everyone,

I been in glass manufacturing for 25 years. "Bloom" is caused by sodium, which is in the raw materials used to make glass, leaching to the surface. This can sometimes occur when bottles are stored for extended periods of time but true blooming in container glass is rarer than people think and not easy to remove from the glass. Container manufacturers today used techniques to prevent blooming.

Most likely the discoloration is occuring with the lubricant that is applied by the glass manufacturers to prevent bottles from scuffing each other in their or their customers' packaging lines. The "cold-end" coatings are basically a vegetable-base oil and EVERY glass manufacturer uses them not just the Chinese (but who knows what some of those companies use). I've even seen this discoloration occur on Saverglass bottles. This can effect labeling if applied to heavy or if the label do not have a proper adhesive. Like absoraka said, a little vinegar, water and elbow grease is a safe and effective way to remove it.

Dave

I understand the price is more, but can we use blown glass bottles?

Curtis, actually all glass bottles are blown, it just a matter of whether it's done by mouth or machine. I assume you are referring to mouth-blown bottles. There should be no problem with TTB but I caution you to watch for 2 things; seal and temper. Many decanters sold in the gift market are not intended for packaging product for distribution, you may have excessive evaporation. If the bottles are not tempered properly they can be brittle and break easily.

George,

I am afraid your price expectations are unrealistic, black glass is very difficult to produce.

That being said, your best bet outside of China is Piramal Glass who produces in the U.S., they may have a black glass campaign which you could join onto with one of their stock molds. Though because of the weight of the these bottles, I am not sure that they can achieve what you are looking for.

Doug Thompson

(201) 482-8638

Best regards,

Dave

Yes.

I'm having no luck finding capsules with perforations around the top circumference, not a pull tab. also no grapes. I see these an many national brands. Anyone?

Have you tried Janson?

http://www.jansoncapsules.com/products/products.htm

Holy shit, I have been on the phone for a week with ATF, and no one said anything about Discus, Thank you Wes.

Curtis,

This is a fairly simple form script that can be added to your home page that simply re-directs a view if they enter a birth date that doesn't add up to 21. Kind of silly since any 12 year old would figure out that they simply have to put in a fake birth date, if it is not required by law I wouldn't bother. If it is, your web designer should be able to hook you up with very little effort (and cost) as scripts are available for free.

Dave

I've worked in the glass industry for over 20 years. Even one cracked or chipped neck in a shipment, without indication that it was caused by damage in shipment, would result in rejection. The glass would be sent back for 100% inspection to ensure that there were no longer any chipped or cracked necks. This condition could occur as a result of poor molding or during tranfer from the mold to the conveyor. Cracks in the body are rarely found. This would only occur if the bottles were not properly annealed after production.

As for AQLs (acceptable quality levels) for defects; in cosmetic and fragrance packaging the AQLs are typically within the following ranges:

Critical Defect (can cause harm to the consumer): Zero Tolerance

Major Defect (effects functionality or ability to fill): 1.0-2.5%

Minor Defect (effects only the appearance): 5.0-6.5%

For the beverage industry I would expect that the Major and Minor categories would have slightly higher AQLs but Criticals are likely still Zero Tolerance. Other examples of Critical Defects would be "Shark Fins", razor sharp pieces of glass at the mold seams caused by incomplete mold closure, and "Bird Swings", a strand of glass inside the bottle attached on opposing walls, usually only seen in rectangular or oval bottles.

As for the other categories, like our friend from Brown Pkg. states, there are too many to list. As a glass decorator we do incoming inspections on all bottles coming into our facility and will reject on behalf of our customers.

Dave, if you have specific concerns about a shipment of glass you received, you can give me a call and I'll be glad to share my experience.

Dave Desai - Decotech

Tel) 973-879-7906

We are glass bottle decorators in NJ who started suppying your industry in May of 2010. Obviously this bill not only benefits the craft distillers but the companies who supply them, most of us are are also small businesses.

I incourage all of the other suppliers members here to contact Melkon so he can add you to his list. And to the distillers, if you have suppliers who are not members, see if you can get them on board as well.

Good Luck!

Dave Desai

Decotech, Inc.

We are in the planning stages for an artisan distillery in south west Michigan, with a specific interest in aromatic white spirits.

Welcome, if you need some direction with bottles and other packaging, feel free to give me a call...

Dave Desai/Decotech

Mobile: 973-879-7906

This article is a must read...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/27/business/media/27adco.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=nuvo&st=cse

I'm looking for a 750 ml designer bottle that is purple, know of any connections or leads of a bottle company. Thanks

I work for a glass decorator in NJ, we can turn any stock bottle purple through organic spray lacquering. If you tell me the type of shape you are looking for I can help you find available stock.

Give me a call... Dave Desai/Decotech 201-569-1900 x.103 (dave.desai@decotech-inc.com)

Though the author raised some good points, he also makes a number of statements as if they were well known facts that are just false. Starting with "Big Beer makes bad beer", there are a number of "big breweries" turning out excellent beer, Bass, Guinness, Becks, Molson to name a few. You may not like all of these beers or perhaps none of them but they are excellent beers in their classes. If you want a traditional IPA, Bass is the standard, a small brewery in MA called Harpoon has come very close to replicating this. However, some have come to prefer what I call the West Coast style IPA with a bitter finish that comes from the liberal use of local hops. Too bitter for my taste but this doesn't mean one is better than the other.

It's not that the big U.S. beer companies don't know how to make unique, full-flavored beers, it just doesn't make financial sense. If you take all 1600 craft breweries and add their sales together they make up 7% of the U.S. beer market. Another 13% is premium imports which means 80% of the beer consumed in America is bland, domestic, mass-produced lagers and pilners. The craft brewing industry celebrates annual growth every year between 5-10%, at this pace they will grow to 10% about 5 years. Even then, how exactly does Coors or Budweiser attack a market share that is broken down into 5000 different variets of beer?

The big distillers got big because they eventually produced spirits that appealled to the masses. This usually means products with less distinction that go down easy. If you want to make a whiskey that will sell millions, make wheat vodka, age it in oak, and market it as the smoothest whiskey on the planet, Quadruple Distilled!

Taste is subjective, the gift the craft brewing movement gave us is variety. The growth in craft brewing shows that more and more people are seeking out new tastes. Craft distillers can take advantage of this by introducing spirits that are different and stop worrying about what is "better". Full-flavored beers and spirits will rarely win blind taste tests among uneducated palates, does that make a near tasteless vodka better than one with distinctive character?

This is a little scary. I agree that we really need to get our act together -- they apparently see craft distillers as a threat, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to co-opt the category. Sort of like how the big beer guys bought out a lot of the craft brewers to expand their product lines and keep relevant.

Vodka is already a crowded category... This will be interesting. Can't wait to see a craft "small batch" vodka available throughout the world... >.<

It will be interesting to see how this effects the marketplace. I one aspect their mass distribution of "craft" brands will add credibility category especially when the product starts selling as a result of little Moon Mountain Distillery's incredibly large advertising budget. The may help convince retailers to give space to the true craft brands as well. This will get more distributors to take a serious look at the opportunity; they are probably locked into the same tiny margin for Moon Mountain as they are for the rest of Diageo's products. If their customers take an interest the distributors will have an opportunity to make better margins with ADI member products. On the other hand, if Diageo puts out 3 or 4 "craft" brands in various categories they may just steal up all the shelf space (which is probably their plan). I think it would be prudent to petition the TTB for definition on craft distilling, much like they have for craft brewing which is measured in barrels produced per year.

I got an email back this morning from the TTB. It is legal; one just has to file the paperwork to the labeling division.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=79fc69ea0bebabb9a9f3fd845c415b94&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.15.20.173.4&idno=27

Bottle washing and reuse programs are encouraged by the goverment for manufacturers; it would be illegal to refill any product, whether alcohol or not, by anyone other than the original manufacturer. With the cost of premium bottles, it is certainly worth investigating. There are some known caveats that I can share for those who wish to investigate. First, pressure-sensitive labels for glass are very hard to remove with convention washing systems. Wet glue paper labels are the standard for but are more commonly used on beer bottles. Direct printing on the bottles is a viable alternative but you would need to stick with good old ceramic inks (newer organic and UV cured inks won't stand-up to multiple washings). Because of the move away from heavy-metals in printing inks, ceramics inks do not provide the color range that organics do but if you were to go down this road I am sure a little compromise on color would be worth it. We print with ceramic, organic and UV-cured inks, which system we use depends on the project. We have not done any bottles for reuse yet but if anyone is interested in pursuing feel free to give me a call at 201-569-1900 x.103.

Dave

Stephen,

I have some ideas that might work for you. Give a call at 201-569-1900 x.103 or my mobile at 973-879-7906.

Dave

Frosting has become very popular when decorating glass spirit bottles. The technique was made famous by Grey Goose Vodka and has since been copied by dozens of others. The primary advantage in clear spirits is the creation of a semi-opaque canvas for other decorating techniques. Adding tints is a great way to differentiate flavored versions of a clear spirit. Today frosting on glass bottles can be achieved through 2 different processes; chemical etching and spray lacquering.

Chemical frosting is often referred to as acid frosting since it was originally developed using hydrofluoric or sulfuric acids to etch the surface of the glass. In the U.S., use of such corrosive and dangerous chemicals have been restricted or banned. Respecting the safety of our employees and our community we have developed alternative formulations to produce the same result in an environmentally friendly manner.

Spray frosting is accomplished by uniformly spraying a semi-translucent lacquer on the surface of the bottle. This lacquer must then be cured, usually by heat, to improve adherence. All spray frosting is not created equal; although the intention is to mimic chemical frosting, many attempts fall short. As with all spray lacquers, even after curing, they can be highly susceptible to scuffing. Be sure to ask for a ship test to be performed before approving any spray lacquers.

There are a number of factors that will determine which process is right for you. Chemical frosting is typically less expensive; spray frosting has a much higher material and energy costs. Chemical frosting can be affected by various glass coatings applied during bottle manufacturing. This can sometimes be resolved by decontamination; if not then spray frosting is the alternative. Both processes can be masked to create clear panels or decorative elements. Both can produce varying degrees of opacity but spray frosting also allows for the introduction of tints and special textures. Chemical frosting is much less susceptible to scuffing in transit.

We at Decotech are experts in both techniques for frosting glass. In addition we offer spraying, printing, stamping, decaling, labeling, gluing and graphic design, all performed under a single roof. If you would like to learn more about how we can help your product get noticed, please call me, Dave Desai, at 201-569-1900 x.103, or e-mail me at dave.desai@decotech-inc.com.

The Bartlett Pear is known as the Williams Pear in Germany and is the used to create a popular eau de vie called Poire Williams (delicious) but is sounds like you are looking just to capture that flavor in a cleaner, less sweet, spirit. With a Himbergeist, blackberries are soaking in neutral spirits for a period of time and then pressed to capture all the natural juice. This is then added to the spirit and re-distilled result in a nice flavor without the sweetness. I imagine it will work with pear but for technique I defer to the distillers in this forum, I am merely an enthusiast.

I have ignored and deleted all the request until this one. He gave a CC number, it checked out, moneys deposited into our account, and he is paying retail as an individual. His carrier has yet to pick up the order, but twice he has requested to increase the order (paying in advance). The kicker is he wants us to pay his carrier via Western Union. Money is deposited into our account via CC, then we pay WU to pay the carrier. We get paid, but the WU to the carrier "doesn't smell right".

Paul

Paul,

I had an internet business a received a request from a Stephen Nesbit who wanted to purchase toys for a school in Nigeria. The credit card he gave me was from the UK but he told me that he could not use PayPal, since I bit he was persistant and even called me. Except when he did, his Nigerian accent was so thick that I could barely understand what he was saying but he wanted to give me the credit card info on the phone so I could run it manually. When I began to question him he finally started cursing me out and hung up. I did not hear from him again. The credit card is likely stolen, if you want to protect yourself set up a PayPal account so that they assume liability. Easy to do and the fees are very reasonable.

Dave

I'm looking at bottles made in Mexico as an alternative to the Euro manufacturers. The quality isn't quite as impressive, but they are about half the price and can be ordered in smaller quantities.

Anyone have experience with Mexican glass? Any downsides other than not being quite as nice as the Euro bottles?

As a glass decorator we work with Vitro as well, I agree with all the feedback already given, they are a good group to work with. We will supply any of their bottles with decoration included from our plant in New Jersey, any quantity. Call me if your interested in turnkey.

Dave Desai

201-569-1900 x.103

Lee,

Try these guys...

www.wireline.net

If you ever need exception bottle decorating call me.

Good Luck!

Dave

Brad,

I may be able to help you with either option. Give me a call when you get into to discuss details.

Dave Desai

Decotech, Inc.

201-569-1900 x.103

Hi Dave

In the poll is a mistake, it's required to select both poll options but you ask in the second: "If so" and also ask "how was it applied", both doesn't fix if you didn't use it.

You might wanna change it to "how did or would you apply it"

Joe

Thanks for pointing that out. I added a "Not Using Metallics" to the second part of the poll. I did not see a way to make if optional or dependant on the first question.

This is my second installment in a series aimed to educate craft distillers on techniques available to make their products jump off the shelf. As stated in my previous article on spray lacquering, the final decision by the consumer is made at the point-of-purchase. This is the why the big guys put some much into their package designs and the reason you should too.

The connection is obvious; the presence of precious metals in a package projects an image of quality and prestige. Gold, silver, platinum, and bronze have been symbols of value since the dawn of time. So how do you incorporate this into your bottle design?

First, use metallics wisely; too much bling, bling can have the opposite effect. A single shiny gold of silver element will draw the eye so consider carefully what you want to draw attention to. What are your key selling points? Something in the process; Aged 10 Years, Triple Distilled, Small Batch, Hand-Crafted? Or perhaps regional information; 100% Organic Idaho Potatoes, Distilled in the Shenandoah Valley. An alternative is the use of ornate frames or borders. These will draw the eye to the intended element without actually being part of it.

Precious metals can also be integrated into screen printed text or graphics. Think of engraving marks on your product name or highlights within the feathers of an eagle. Integrating mixed mediums like this requires precision registration; make sure you discuss this with your bottle decorator (hint… hint…) early in the design stage.

Direct application of precious metals can simulate, when done properly, the look of a metal plaque or medallion. The advantages are efficiency in application and consistency in placement. Of course, in some instances, an actual plaque or medallion may work best. In these cases it is very important to test adherence and resistance to both your product and abrasion that can occur in filling and transportation. We can perform these tests in our lab even if you choose to hand apply yourself.

The exception to the Rule of Moderation is metallic spray lacquering. This is done to make the glass bottle look like it’s actually made of metal. In addition to the various precious metals, color can be added to create a finish similar what is commonly seen on cars.

We at Decotech are experts in applying precious metals to glass using a variety of different processes. In addition we offer frosting, spraying, printing, stamping, decaling, labeling, gluing and graphic design, all performed under a single roof. If you would like to learn more about how we can help your product get noticed, please call me, Dave Desai, at 201-569-1900 x.103, or e-mail me at dave.desai@decotech-inc.com.

Cheers!

Try Quickbooks Premier for Industry...

http://quickbooks.intuit.com/product/accounting-software/small-business-management-software.jsp

Call them to discussing integrating the barcoding system, I know Intuit makes software for that and they may have something you can plug in.

Good luck!

Dave

Toby,

I read your post today. I'd admire the fact you and your wife are considering a blue agave spirit made in the U.S. (Chicago of all places). I only know of 2 others who braved this challenge. I don't know why... the French have cognac, we have brandy, the French have Champagne, we have sparkling wine. In any case the tequila police don't like it a bit but there is nothing they can do as long as it is not called tequila.

When you get around to designing your packaging please keep me in mind. We are a 50 year old bottle decorator/distributor who also supplies closures, cartons, and other accessories. Our in-house graphic design department can help you develop your brand from start to finish. Call me any time, advise is free.

Good luck!

Dave - (201)569-1900 x.103

www.decotech-inc.com

Who owns the bottle mold? Which manufacturer is it at? Is the cap a stock item? Who manufactures it?

The Platinum Spirits Company launched Platinum Liqueur in September of last year and we received a very acceptable offer for the trademark in February. We now have an incredible package and ample inventory with no brand name. The package has not officially received any awards as we never had time to enter any of the contests, but it’s the first comment out of anyone’s mouth that handles the package. Please visit our website for more photos: www.platinumspirits.com

We will consider a complete sale or new brand jv:

Custom bottle mould

Custom cap mould

5,697 bottles – France

18,667 bottles – US East Coast

18,700 caps - Wisconsin