seventh son

Do you still have these? I sent a pm to you.

Can you provide a model number? The pictures that you posted will not open.

I'm interested. Is this about 700 gallons?

1 hour ago, Silk City Distillers said:

This is getting into fairly sophisticated electronics design and safety engineering. What I am saying is that if your AHJ is indicating this is an issue, the necessary certifications are likely more important than the individual circuit components.

 

Thanks for the reply. It's not an AHJ issue, I just want to be sure that my still is operating safely. 

Someone suggested to me that simply adding a thermowell would solve the problem, but I am still skeptical. If a short in the controller leads to the thermocouple, I don't see how the thermowell would provide a barrier. 

I need to add a couple temperature probes into the vapor path in my distillation column. I'm looking for a simple stand-alone thermometer to plug the probes into so that I don't have to rebuild my control panel. I'm having trouble finding an intrinsically safe thermometer. The question is...does it have to be intrinsically safe, or can it be a standard thermometer?

16 minutes ago, Southernhighlander said:

Sorry to hear that you have imploded some of your vacuum stills and about your challenges concerning cuts and efficiency.

The tanks I imploded wore more or less expendable. That was years ago during Some trials and experiments. I wasn't trying to scare anyone away from vacuum distillation, my point was that you can't operate any still under vacuum. Obviously, you sell units that are designed for vacuum operation. I like what you're doing.

The challenges of making cuts and the inefficiencies are just a couple of the trade-offs of vacuum distillation. If it wasn't worth the trade-offs I wouldn't still be distilling that way!

On 8/4/2019 at 11:12 AM, Silk City Distillers said:

 Vacuum distillation is just a tool, not necessarily better or worse than atmospheric distillation, just different.

As the founder of Seven Brothers and a guy who has been building and using small scale vacuum stills commercially for a decade, I agree that it is just different. Vacuum stills will allow you to manipulate variables to achieve different results. That has always been my goal, not to make a vodka just like the big guys make, but to make products that stand out as different from the herd. Ultimately, the consumer decides if they are better or worse than products made in conventional stills!

As far as running a vacuum still goes, they can be temperamental and they are not always as efficient as conventional stills. Mine are set up to sample without breaking vacuum, but making correct cuts is more challenging because the boiling point of each component changes under vacuum and you don't have traditional temperature benchmarks to rely on. It's not the easy way to make spirits.

On 8/4/2019 at 11:26 AM, Southernhighlander said:

In fact we have a design for a unit that is contained in a case that looks like and oversized computer tower that will connect to any stills parrot connection so that it becomes a vacuum still.

Southernhighlander, I have some experience imploding non-vacuum-rated vessels. It's relatively easy to convert a large, shiny, expensive still into a crumpled mass. I wouldn't pull even a modest vacuum on any vessel that is not engineered for it (again). 

On 8/3/2019 at 5:42 PM, Thatch said:

I'm not generally impressed when I visit distilleries but low and behold what I found in Ohio farm country East of Cleveland.  Although the inventor was not present, I believe these are back to back continuous column vacuum stills.  Both seem to have infusion abilities.  His nephew told me that the inventor built his first still at age 12.  There are a couple of additional photos on their FB page.  I have no additional information.   https://www.facebook.com/SevenBrothersDistillingCo/

Thanks for the praise and sorry that I missed you, but my walleye fishing expedition went much longer than planned, so I was late to our open-house! My nephew was a little off, my first attempt at making alcohol was at the age of 13, but I didn't build my first vacuum still until a dozen years ago!

The equipment pics on our website and FB page are not current. I just finished an upgrade. I do have a continuous vacuum stripping still and batch vacuum stills for finishing and infusion. All designed and built in-house from sourced or locally fabricated components. 

I'm looking to buy a tote of stripped wheat distillate. Anybody out there interested?

Have you considered using recirculation instead of agitation. It may not be as efficient, but with the right plumbing and the right pump, it could be a solution for you.

I know this thread is a bit old, but my potential source for wheat is telling me that they average 3ppm DON. There seems to be some scant evidence that it affects the mashing and fermentation efficiency, but at this level it may not have a big impact. Is there evidence that it affects the flavor of the distilled spirits?

I find myself needing an inexpensive ROPP capper for a small bottling run. Anybody out there interested in selling a bench-top model?

Thanks, MDH. I'm hoping that his particular product will be between 8% and 12% ABV. I will change course if pasteurization is required. I know that cider producers often pasteurize, but I imagine the equipment cost will be prohibitive for my project.

I am working on a low-proof distilled product and I would like to bottle it with a small amount of the fruit in the bottle. I see examples of similar product on the market. The best example that I can give is a low-proof "moonshine" type product with fruit in the jar. Is there a low proof where I should be concerned with pasteurizing the product?

I signed a simple contract with a broker not long ago - they represent and promote our products, and we pay them a fixed % of the selling price (as a broker they don't take possession of the liquor).

I guess that I may be a little naive, but I thought that for this payment, they would promote our product at bars, restaurants, and in stores. Now they are proposing a two month program where we would pay additional money for performance: $ for each menu, $ for each new bar restaurant, $ for each display, etc....

My opinion is that this is what I have been paying them for already. I know that programming is normal in the industry, but is it typical for a broker to be paid these incentives on top of the agreed upon rate?

Here's my take and I'm sure others will step in and correct me if I'm wrong: Making vodka is all about two things - achieving 95%, and achieving separation of heads, middle, and tails. To do each of these you need lots of reflux. A short column will require multiple passes to achieve 95% unless you slow it waaaay down by increasing reflux. As your run goes on, more and more reflux is needed to keep it at 95%. A narrow 3" or 4" column gives you a pretty modest flow rate to start with. Then the question becomes - can you build your business on the vodka production volume that a small still can produce? Do the math, you'll probably discover that making something (anything) other than vodka is a better choice if you are on a low budget!

Between missing threads and those multi-posts caused by that weird post error, this is about the buggiest forum software i've ever come across. Maybe they are in the process of upgrading? What other threads are missing seventhson?

mtn

We don't have a well or city water. I have water trucked in as needed to fill two large holding tanks - one for process/cleaning water and one for mash water. For cooling, we use a continuous loop system that goes through a cooling pond, but you could just as easily add a chiller. It is actually less costly than a well in the short run ($90 for 2000 gallons), but in the long run I think a well would be cheaper. Then again, I'm in the Midwest where water is abundant.

Those are not the only missing threads

I still have not located any small used barrels for sale so I thought that I would ask again!

All of our cases are 12 bottles each and have been since the start. However, our distributors will handle either. I have seen both 6 and 12 on their product lists. I don't think this matters.

As for still size, we started with a 600 liter still with 31 foot column. Picture attached. It cost under $20,000 and has produce Double Gold at San Francisco. So in my experience, skip those expensive and pretty German stills that cost over $100,000. A 600 liter still was big enough to produce about 2,000 cases per year the first year. We were running it hard.

When you are ready to expand, you just get a second still based on what your production needs. Our second still was a 2,000 liter pot still that was also under $20,000. We use that for stripping runs. Size your fermentation tanks appropriately for your still.

We are also in a tourist are near Yellowstone and Jackson Hole with millions of visitors per year for skiing (winter) and Yellowstone (summer) so our scale might not be typical.

Teton, I'm just curious -what percentage of sales is retail vs. wholesale?

Hey Neil .. We use invert syrup that we make ourselves... You can look up the recipe on wiki .. Pretty easy .. Sugar , citric acid, water .. boil to 236' f

Voila !!! The you add it by weight .. Since you boil it to 236 the water is evaporated so there is no water weight...

Leftturn,

So, for every 100 lbs of Vodka, you could add 2 lbs of syrup? I assume that this done at bottling proof. Am I understanding correct?

Okay, we are on the same page. We have a still that can switch between running as a pot still or as a hybrid still. That is, we can remove the plates from the column (not bypass, that is not quite the same IMO). We have run our mash through both ways. You don't get the same product from a single run in a hybrid still that you get from a double run in a pot still, at least when using a full on-grain mash for distillation, our preferred method. Beer might be different, we don't do much with beer. Our strips come out at about 120, we dilute back to 80 for the spirit run. We also run a dephlegmator for the spirit run, and that comes out just below 160 to start.

How did the results differ from single distillation in hybrid vs. double distillation in pot still?

I have not researched grape based vodka, but I am curious - would you ferment the grapes for months as if you are making wine or would you do a fast 4-6 day fermentation?

Sometimes I think the moonshiners got it right and us law-abiding distillers are the dumb ones!