dgpoff

A hybrid. 475 liter pot with a 4 plate column on top. We can disengage the plates to operate as a straight pot still. Thanks for the kind words on our packaging. Our design firm has won numerous awards for the work they did. Don

We recently added a stripping still to our operation. Our product has not changed at all. Both stills are from the same builder, Carl. By adding a stripping still we tripled our capacity. Don

I, per the current fellow distiller rules, will not bring up Bryan's fascination with certain wool bearing animals. Thank God his wife is such a fine woman and pretty much runs things! Don (less "The")

Check out www.dryflydistilling.com. We are doing classes starting next year. Don

Kyle, We are doing classes in Spokane. Check out our web site at www.dryflydistilling.com. Info on the classes there! Don

Fly Fishing and small scale distilling - That is our life to a "T." Check out www.dryflydistilling.com - let's go fishing. We'll bring the spirits! Don

Here in Washington we are a FOB supplier to the state. Their markup, which includes both taxes and fees to run the control system, are about 100%. So a $15 FOB bottle becomes $30 on the shelf. As a result of legislation we wrote and lobbied, we can now sell out of our distillery and capture about half of that markup for ourselves, although we are limited to both a 2 liter per person and state set pricing mandate. Some see control states as a "problem" or difficult to break through the state mandates. We find control states much easier than distributed states. There is a level playing field with all suppliers (no distributor blocking maneuvers), and the rules are pretty much set (no negotiation of every detail and cost.) Distributors are necessary to growing a brand. Ditto with brokers in some scenarios. You just have to plan for the costs and weigh those against the benefits/volumes obtained. Don

We bought our recipes off of EBAY. Neither of us had relatives that were out of the prison system long enough to develop their own products. Don

I think that from an all inclusive," lets get a lower tax rate" standpoint, this is about as harmonious as we can get. I do still hold the unpopular opinion that this definition has nothing to do with defining either this organization or providing any consumer direction when it comes to small artisan/craft distillers. Don

Chuck, Well said. I think we are wresting with 2 things here. An intense desire to get taxes lowered. Under this objective it seems as if we have adapted the term "small spirit producer." This is an all inclusive term (possibly too inclusive) designed to add horsepower to the legislative effrot. The second issue is what is a craft distiller? As a grain to bottle manufacturer, I'm pretty sure we would qualify. Beyond that, it's all speculation that has no easy answer. Practically everyone wants the ability to use the term as it has some value in the marketplace, but it won't if we allow the lines to be blurred to the point where we are at with "small spirit producer" on the legislative side. ADI was designed to be an organization that supports small distilling. One would think that actually includes some participation in the distilling process beyond simple blending and/or bottling. Don

Dry Fly Distilling, Spokane, Washington, also fully supports this effort. Discussions with our legislators have already started. This document will add significant fuel to the fire. Thank You Melkon for all of your hard work. Don Poffenroth Kent Fleischmann

Ralph, It is serious, but not so serious that we labor over such much data and opinion that we lose our ability to enjoy what we are doing. Volume seems to be the ONLY common ground. And if indeed that is the only criteria, then we need to change the name, scope, and mission of this organization. It's just not right, in my humble and unpopular opinion, to call us distillers, when in fact many under this new criteria will not be so. I think we are treading on losing our identity here. On one hand, we want to develop small distilling, on the other, we want to attack legislative issues that effect not only small distillers, but small spirit producers as well. The two, although complimentary, may not be perfectly aligned. Don

Don being 100% serious and on topic here: The only thing I think this group of diverse folks will probably agree on is a volume tier to define a "small producer." The rest of this discussion is an exercise in futility. Don Nice post. Precise. Very serious.

Both examples of the power of marketing versus actual manufacturing and craftsmanship. Don

People, I WAS JUST KIDDING! My gosh, this is all becoming way too serious. Time for a round of chill pills. Obviously one must be totally serious here. NO MORE FUN! Don At least Paul got it . . . . .

OK - I think I have it figured out. This is easy - it's all about the focus on the DSP permit. I propose the following tiers in the new SDSPA (Small DSP Association): SDSPMDP - Level code Alpha - This Small DSP holder Mashes, Distills, and Packages product. Their group color shall be copper. They will only sit in chairs draped in red at all group functions. Their dues shall be paid in Euros. SDSPDP - Level code Omega - This Small DSP holder Distills and Packages product. Their group color small be bronze. They must only shake hands with their left hands. Their dues shall be paid is US Dollars. SDSPP - Level code Delta - This Small DSP holder only packages product. They have no distilling equipment other than a 3 liter coffee pot still they bought on ebay. Their group color shall be orange - as in the threat level orange. They must sport a tattoo of their logo somewhere above the belt line. Their dues shall be paid in copper scrubbing pads. SDSP - Level code Zeta - This Small DSP holder does whatever in the hell he or she wants. They don't make or package anything. They are "worried about small distilling and world peace." Their group color shall be red. They will be granted permanent access to every other members facilities so they can "borrow" some stuff with promises of an speedy return. This group shall have no dues as they live off the work of others. See, That wasn't so hard. Don Proponent of SDSPA

This discussion is missing one critical element or thought. A small distiller should be able to make a better/different product than a large distiller (assuming we are NOT talking about processing NGS into a Vodka.) Differentiation is they key to success in this market. So many raw ingredients, so many fermentation methods and choices, so many method variations, so many approaches to filtering or finishing. Over-saturated - maybe when it comes to industrial or NGS based vodka, but not when it come to true craft distilled vodka. There must be thousands of products or flavors we have all yet to see. Colorless - maybe, odorless NOT, Tasteless Bullshit. Different is great! Don

The $6 price keeps our production very low. Perfect plan in my humble opinion. Don

This may seem a bit harsh, but the questions you ask are things that you need to take the time and find the answers to. We took 18 plus months to research and write our plan and probably spent in excess of $20,000 doing so. I could give you a copy (if you were to give me a big check) and it would do you little or no good. It's my plan. What you may do will be totally different. There are many challenges in this business that are based on who you are, what you want to do, where you want to do it, how big you want to be, and every minute financial detail/decision that plays in those questions. People looking for a short cut, are headed for serious trouble. There are no easy ways to do this. If there were, we would have all done it that way. Also, this is no get rich quick proposition. We are doing OK and lose money every day. Maybe in a few years that will change. But if your goal is to make a quick million in distilling, start with $2 million, send me one, and call it a day. Don

I'm guessing by "nip" you mean 50ml bottles. We do pack 50ml bottles. We hand label, fill on our filler, hand cap, applt a tamper seal, and then shrink wrap in six packs. It is a very labor intensive and expensive process. Our 50ml bottles are in a glass version of the 750 we use, imported from France. FYI we retail our 50ml at almost $6 each - and have trouble making enough to meet demand. So - it can be done, but not easily! Don

Ditto!

This position has been filled. Don

Ralph, Well put. I agree that a grassroots effort should be launched on behalf of all small distillers to lower the tax rate. I have already spoken with all of my area Senators and Legislators. I am pushing for a sponsorship of a bill that we can all get behind. That effort needs to be duplicated by each and every licensed small distiller. This is an all for one proposition. As far as DISCUS is concerned, I can't see them really embracing our goals and objectives. As small producers, we are positioned to produce products and approach marketing in a way that they can not. They may want to "play" with us, but only until one of us hurts one of them - then we'll be kicked to the curb. If I was DISCUS, I'd want the ADI in my pocket as well. History tells us that small producers will outgrow the larger producers, albeit at a small volume. Additionally, most news or press these days is all about small distilling, not major manufacturers. Maybe we should propose a $100,000 ADI membership to DISCUS (based solely on volume.) We'll could then credit them their $75,000 and come out $25,000 ahead. They need us more than we need them. Don

Charles, Good point. Wording is everything. The link to the TTB tax rates is on the TTB site. Easy to find. http://www.ttb.gov/tax_audit/atftaxes.shtml Let's do some math - For a brewery - 60,000 barrels would equal 14,880,000 16 ounce servings. For a winery - 100,000 gallons would be about 2,560,000 5 ounce servings. So the distillery equivalent at a 1.5 ounce serving would be about 30,000 gallons of production on the winery side or 174,375 gallons of spirit at the brewery level. Quite a range! Also it appears the "reduction" should be somewhere between $8-$12, depending on whether you model after beer or wine. And although I support anything that supports this industry, I'm not sure if we could organize properly in any short period of time. May be best to go grass roots right now, and back it up with more formal approaches later. Don

Fellow distillers, As we all know, the excise rate that we pay on our production is exactly the same as any other producer of distilled spirits. The rate of $13.50 per proof gallon is constant, and has no allowance for smaller production. Conversely, breweries 60,000 barrels and under pay an excise tax 60% less that of a large producer. Wineries under 100,000 gallons pay a tax rate up to 84% less than larger producers. As small distillers, we are paying more than our fair share. I'd like to see this become an ADI project, which I will volunteer to coordinate. I think we need a letter on the issue on ADI letterhead, signed by each and every small licensed DSP, requesting a lower excise tax rate for production under a certain level. This can be added to individual letters from the distilleries themselves. This "packet" should then be circulated to each and every one of our Congressmen and Senators. Plenty of elections coming up, and plenty of opportunities to raise the issue in many different forums. We can also approach some lobby groups, agriculture for example, to attempt to gain support. Our government is never too keen on reducing tax income, but if we make this a small business, agriculturally based issue, we may just gain some traction. Don