Terry at RVS

On 6/30/2014 at 9:59 PM, dhdunbar said:

The rules concerning statements of age are among those that seem, when you start reading them, to go on forever. They occur alongside rules that apply to the statements about the percentage of neutral spirits that are in a blend. For the sake of clarity, if not sanity, I will strike all references to percentages in the following discussion. Further, I’ll wipe from the slate any references to blended whiskey at all. I’ll also knock out references to bottled in bond labeling and to imported whiskey. Those eliminations make understanding §5.40 a bit easier. I’ll quote the regulations without indicating anything has been dropped.

The first rule is that statements of age are optional on whiskey that is four years old or more. Unless a whiskey is four years old or more, you must make a statement of age. There is no option.

The age of the youngest whiskey in the mix or blend (remember, we are not talking about whiskey that contains neutral spirits) is the age of the spirit. Mix 999 gallons of whiskey that are 12 years old and one gallon of whiskey that is three years old, and the whole 1000 gallons is declared to be three years old.

The statement of age that must appear on the label “shall” – remember “shall” means it must - read substantially as follows” “ ___ years old.” There is absolutely no provision here for a statement of the sort, “Aged less than four years,” as some have suggested. If TTB accepts the latter, then it does. But that is not the way the rules are written. Any wiggle room comes from TTB’s practice, not its requirements.

Stripping out the various provisions for blends, that is pretty much the whole shebang. Age it less than four years and you have to state the age; age it four years or more and stating the age is optional.

One question remains, “What is age?”

For this, we must look to TTB’s definitions in §5.11, where we find that, as used in Part 5, age has a particular meaning that changes with the type of whiskey to which we apply it. In fact, some whiskey acquires no age at all - and I’m not referring to those “unaged” whiskey, whose existence depends on TTB’s penchant for ignoring the requirements of its own regulations

Let’s be clear about that point. Whiskey is, by class standards, “an alcoholic distillate from a fermented mash of grain produced at less than 190° proof in such manner that the distillate possesses the taste, aroma, and characteristics generally attributed to whisky, stored in oak containers (except that corn whisky need not be so stored), and bottled at not less than 80° proof.

Again, let’s throw corn whiskey out of this discussion, because it is that annoying exception that proves (in the sense of tests) the rule. We will pretend that no such thing as corn whiskey exists. Then, if we want to make a “corn whiskey,” we can revisit the regulations and examine the whole separate set of rules for corn whiskey without getting snarled with the rules that apply for every other kind of whiskey.

 

So, throwing out corn, here is the rule. All whiskey is stored in oak containers.

Many make much of the fact that the regulations do not require a specified period of storage. They like to tout a seemingly clever interpretation, stating that this means that 30 seconds in oak suffices. Everyone who touts that, or similar rules, ignores the requirement that whatever emerges from the storage must possess “the taste, aroma, and characteristics generally attributed to whiskey.” From the labels one sees, TTB must be among those who ignore the “characteristics” rule. But here I am dealing with what the regulations require, not with what TTB allows in practice. Indeed, the requirement that you state age in the form “___ years old,” implies that TTB anticipates, by rule if not practice, some substantial time in oak.

 

I am not arguing that this makes any sense. The arguments that lead to the definition took place long ago, when different segments of the industry – those who made whiskey by rectification and those who did so by storing in oak - sought to turn the regulations to their advantage.

Note that the standard for whiskey says that it must be “stored in oak.” It does not "aged in oak,“ or even that it must be aged at all. The terms “age” and “store” have different meanings. Any time a whiskey goes into oak, it is stored. However, the definition of “age” gets tangled with the standards of identity for the different products. Again, to make it more easily understood, some parsing is in order. Age means:

The period during which, after distillation and before bottling, distilled spirits have been stored in oak containers.

Now, this is misleading because the definition uses the general term “distilled spirits,” from which one might conclude that any spirit may acquire age as a result of its being stored in oak. I’m trying to avoid detours into things other than whiskey, but I don’t want to leave open so wide a door to misunderstanding. Some spirits, other than whiskey, do acquire age, as TTB choses to use the term, but not all spirits do. Here is the complete picture, derived from §5.40:

( Statements of age for rum, brandy, and Tequila. Age may, but need not, be stated on labels of rums, brandies, and Tequila, except that an appropriate statement with respect to age shall appear on the brand label in case of brandy (other than immature brandies and fruit brandies which are not customarily stored in oak containers) not stored in oak containers for a period of at least 2 years. If age is stated, it shall be substantially as follows: “__ years old”; the blank to be filled in with the age of the youngest distilled spirits in the product.

© Statement of storage for grain spirits. In case of grain spirits, the period of storage in oak containers may be stated in immediate conjunction with the required percentage statement; for example, “__% grain spirits stored __ years in oak containers.” I will not again comment that aged gin is becoming so common that some competitions even have it as a class for which they make awards.

Let’s get back to whiskey. As I said, the meaning of the term “age” gets entangled with the standards of identity. For those who may be familiar with the battles over the definition of whiskey, first in 1906 and then again in 1935-1937 and finally in 1968, the term “age” gets entangled with the difference between “American type” whiskeys, e.g. bourbon, wheat, rye and malt whiskies, which were held to have the characteristics of whiskey aged in new charred oak, and other whiskey, e.g., Scotch, Irish, and Canadian whiskeys, which were held to have characteristics of whiskeys aged in reused oak barrels. Thus, when we parse the definition of age, we find that:

For spirits of the class whiskey, which are not further designated as a type if whiskey, age means the period of time spent in oak.

For American type whiskeys, i.e. those labeled bourbon, wheat, rye or malt, “age” means the period of time these whiskeys were stored in charred new oak containers.

For whiskey made in the United States, in the manner of whiskeys other than American type whiskeys, that is, whiskeys stored in reused oak, and labeled with the designation, whiskey distilled from bourbon, wheat, rye, or malt mash, no statement of age is allowed. Changes to the regulations in 1968 allowed a different form of statement. §5.40(a)(4) provides that, “in the case of whisky produced in the United States and stored in reused oak containers, except for corn whisky, and for light whisky produced on or after January 26, 1968, there shall be stated in lieu of the words “__ years old” the period of storage in reused oak containers as follows: “__ stored __ years in reused cooperage.”

So there you have the requirements for the statement of “age” as best I can distill them into something understandable.

 

I am working on an article that will describe, in some detail, how these requirements were spawned. Although they were advanced in the guise of rules designed to protect the consumer, I think it is obvious from the twists and turns of the regulation, that few consumers have any notion of the difference between Malt Whiskey and Whiskey Distilled from Malt Mash, or the charred new oak vs. reused oak distinctions, or even oak vs. maple, for that matter. These rules reflect established distillers fighting over market and government bureaucracies attempting to secure their turf as regulators.

Once again I have found the answer to a very specific question by searching through the Forum Archives... Thank you dhdunbar!

By the way, it is critical to de-stem the blossoms since the stems contain a cyanide inducing glycoside. Same goes for the elderberries. Also, do not use unripe elderberries.

We are making ours using only fresh picked, de-stemmed elderblossoms and macerating them for six to eight weeks. The dried just doesn't have the floral nose and the flavor is not the same. Also, the dried won't include a significant amount of pollen, which is important to the flavor profile. 

We are planting more elderberry plants this spring for future production. They don't take many years to mature to flower/fruit bearing. We only collect part of the plants blossoms and allow the rest to fruit. We use the  elderberries to make Elderberry Flavored Vodka (w/o sugar). It's classified as a  "Flavored Vodka" despite being naturally infused with whole fruit, and has no added flavors of any kind.

It's a trade-off on the bushes... every elderblossom cluster you pick is that much less elderberry fruit you will be able to harvest.

Sent you a PM

Does the larger tank have a lid? Where are you located?

We are also looking for a used 4 or 6 spout gravity bottle filler. We are located in upstate New York in the Delaware/Sullivan County area. Is anyone upgrading to a  bigger filler?

Thanks,

Terry

Thanks MG, we thought we were going to need cooling, but our 560 foot well through solid bluestone came in as a gusher and we now have the purest water coming out at 49 degrees!

HedgeBird, I feel your pain. We are pretty remotely located and most truckers refuse to attempt our long driveway, so they off load right on the road (and always deliver during a blizzard). Fortunately, our road gets very little traffic so we don't get complaints about tying up the roadway. I'll keep the shipping in mind when ordering.

The federal government has seen fit to grant us a DSP Permit. We are sending in our application to the great State of New York!

Any and all advice on sourcing bottles, labels and tops would be appreciated. Hoping to post our open hours in early summer. 

Thanks to many of you on this forum, your guidance has been invaluable.

Terry at Rock Valley Spirits

Sent a PM

Hello from upstate New York!

My husband Jim and I have been restoring an old barn on the family farm for well over a year, and are doing the final paperwork to submit our application to the TTB. The still, fermenters and mash tun are in the building and we are hoping to start up late spring or early summer.

We have visited many of you in the Hudson Valley and in the Delaware/Sullivan County region, and we greatly appreciate the advice and encouragement you have given us.

Thanks also to many of you on this forum, it has been so helpful.

Terry at RVS