Aux Arc

Wrong forum

What type of gin? 3 botanicals or many?

If you are planning to produce a multi-botanical I am finding tons of good flavor in 5% abv and less at end of run that I use as most of my proofing water. Very little if any  to pour down drain. 

I was considering starting a new thread regarding this topic and then found that Aaron had commented on it last year.

 he stressed the importance of documenting how you were utilizing the reduction in excise tax.

I am suggesting that we publish those uses here so that our 13,000 Plus members can use those results to start conversations with their representatives and senators in our attempts to get legislation approved to extend the excise tax reduction Beyond 2019.

I do not have numbers to share as I don't anticipate starting production until 2020 however whatever the result it will impact my business plan.

I am reaching out to ask distillers in business prior to 2018 to share how they utilized their excise tax reduction in 2018 and 2019.

Did you add jobs? Did you purchase additional equipment? Did you expand operations? Did you add additional product lines? Did you spend additional monies on marketing? Did you reduce your price point in order to gain additional market share? Did you increase salaries of employees? Did you pocket the money and therefore pay additional income taxes?

There is a need to show Congress that by reducing federal revenue in the form of reduction of excise tax that there was a legitimate expansion of the overall economy by virtue of the reduction.

I seriously doubt that the federal government is going to devote the resources to obtain this data in order to justify an extension of the reduction and therefore it is going to rest upon our shoulders to get this data to the lawmakers. The time is now to begin our lobbying efforts.

If you are interested in tube in shell, check for used dairy equipment.  I see them on auction sites often.

1 hour ago, Southernhighlander said:

So you are are telling your customers to run closed pressurized steam jackets on baine marie stills  with self contained heating systems and you are building your pots for that specific purpose.  That my friend is against fire and safety codes in every US state and Canada, unless the complete device is UL listed. If what you are saying is true, you are putting your customers and your company in a very bad situation.  You need to check the rules and talk to your attorney.

Here are the facts.  The mash in our oil fired, open system, non pressurized 45 to 500 gallon baine marie stills, reaches operating temperature  in 1 to 1.5 hrs.  Our hot water fired stills with, open non pressurized heating systems, reach operating temp in 2 to 2.5hrs.  The reason is simple, the oil can be heated to 300 to 350F while the water can not be heated above 212F under 1 atmosphere.

However our new OSPM modules allow our baine marie stills to be self contained, steam fired stills with open pressurizes systems.  This means that steam temps of up to 248F can be reached.  Because these are open systems, no UL listing is required.  Since steam has a much greater heat transfer  coefficient than oil, our open system pressurization module equipped baine marie stills, reach operating temp much faster than vented water jacketed stills and even oil fired vented jacket stills.  We have had some heat up to operating temps of less than 1 hr with our OSPMs

Also our stills come with heating systems made here at our factory in MO from all UL listed components, while yours do not.  Our control panels are NEC 409 compliant, while you sell kits for heating control systems with non UL listed components mostly made in China.  Panels built from your kits are in no way NEC 409 compliant and they certainly are not safe for the class 1 division 2 environments that surrounds every still. 

  Our heating systems are compliant with all of the fire and safety codes concerning class1 division 2 hazardous environments within the USA and Canada. Your kits have components that can never be used to build compliant panels.

Concerning agitators.  Our agitators have UL listed, US made Baldor motors that are good for class 1 div 1 hazardous environments.  Last time I checked, your agitator motors are not UL listed and they are certainly not certified for C1D1 or C1D2.

Also we use ASME rated American made Apollo safety valves and vacuum relief valves, on our inner pots and jackets.  What do you use on your inner pots and  jackets?

We also put pressure relief valves in the columns that sit on our still pots and you do not and this can create a very hazardous situation.  I can go on and on, but I won't unless you want me too. 

The best thing for you to do is to use the above info to solve these issues that you have.

 We have some new hot water fired stills that reach operating temp in less than 5 minutes.  That's right the contents of the pot begin to boil in less than 5 minutes.  However they are not for beverage ethanol.  They serve other purposes.

 

 

So are the feds having you keep records on your customers who buy those stills for other purposes?

When you try the link it asks for a password 

Sorry. Should have read the whole post

" what was that sound?" she asked.  I replied " that was the sound of a forum discussion flying over my head."

I apologize in advance if this has been discussed somewhere on the Forum.

Is anyone using pressure vessels or vacuum vessels for conditioning your brown spirits?

I am aware of ClevelandSpirits general process but I am curious if anyone on here is doing it, with or without utilizing oak in the process.

In searching auctions for tanks, I am seeing lots of pharmaceutical pressure vessel and vacuum vessel tanks available at what seemed to be extremely reasonable prices and am wondering if it would be worth the cost to start experimenting?

On 4/5/2019 at 7:05 AM, Foreshot said:

 

 

Yes. Tails never make it up the column so that part happens naturally. On a still you use for a finished spirit you would pick a plate that has the flavor profile you want and take off from there - aka the take off plate. You design the still so you have a take off rate that matches the replenishment rate and the column will stay in equilibrium. Various designs out there, some you can have more than one take off plate, some you adjust the column dynamics to make changes to the output ABV. The issue is that you will always have at least a trace of heads in it. 

Think of it like old school moonshining - each plate is like a jar, you pick the jars (plates) that you like and mix that in for a finished product. 

https://www.alcademics.com/2013/07/how-column-distillation-works-bourbon-edition.html

http://cocktailchem.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-physics-of-batch-column-stills-and.html

Thanks Foreshot.  I appreciate the education.

I can put my head around using them for a stripping still but are people actually using them for a finishing still and if so, what or how do the cuts occur?

I have been encouraging people for well over a month to do this someone needs to do it so Denise you be the first

I'd say it safe as a planter or a conversation piece

Click on his content in red it will show you everything he has

Jake Hatfield sorry I helped with that hijack.  I truly hope you find justice with those sob's.  The lawyer s letter was so full of BS.  Yes, raw material cost did go up.  42.00 per ton for stainless plus maybe another 70 per ton if it comes from China.  Should have increased your order by a few hundred.  Please go to the FBI and be persistent.  They should go after the lawyer for perpetuating the fraud.  Maybe they were being honest when they first took your order but it's obvious that they're not still being honest.

Have you done it? Dave Flintstone

Silk.  Where did you get the graphic?

I tried to blow it up to read it but it is unreadable when I do.

He means use backset from your last still run in place of 10 % of your total water. It will help with number 2

Paul, I wish I was but too many irons in the fire this time of year.  I do have a turkey hunt down your way in late April.  I will try to get by to chat but will give you a call first to see if you will be around.  I have been wanting to see your operation for a while now but keep getting pulled in different directions.

1 hour ago, Southernhighlander said:

  The  most important things to do when buying equipment is to first get at as many references as possible and call all of the references and ask them every question that you can think of.  Go visit distilleries that are using the equipment. 

Next, if the company offers you a sales agreement to sign, have your attorney look at it.  If the agreement does not protect you and give you a time line with penalties for the seller, if they are late, don't sign it.

Paul, I would mirror your advice.  It is right on point.  I would add, however, that you should insist on a contract with penalty provisions.  A delay on an order for opening a new facility can be financially devastating.

  Also, when you are dealing with that kind of money, a visit to the production facility, unannounced, would be well worth the cost of travel. Of course if the facility is in China, that might not be possible to go unannounced but I would still want to visit.

That advice is because of the benefit of hindsight, however.  I probably would not have thought of it had the Corson debacle not occurred.  And if you follow any of the brewery business forums, at least two equipment manufacturers have recently gone under holding hundreds of thousands of dollars in Customer deposits.

Maybe requiring bonding by the manufacturers may be the way to go, much like the commercial construction contractors must be bonded to assure the customer that the project will be completed and completed in a timely manner.  That way you could be assured that the manufacturer is not under-capitalized as the insurers that are issuing the bonds would have done much of the due diligence for you.

Paul I wasn't sure how many people younger than our generation would understand that

Kinda?!!!!! Hell it's already on the runway in Cuba🤐

Jakehatfield, I posted this on another thread but I will reiterate it here.  If you live in a state that is different than Corson, don't waste your money on an attorney.  Go to the FBI and make a complaint.  If enough people do this, the FBI would hopefully open an investigation to see if interstate fraud is occurring.  I have recently retired from 30 years of practicing law and that is the advice I would give if you were sitting across the desk from me.

Paul, your statements regarding escaping judgments in Missouri are a bit off the right track.  I have had multiple civil cases in Missouri where I convinced the Judge that due to fraud, tenancy by the entirety property (as it is know in Missouri, we are not a community property state) could be divided and attached.  

On 3/4/2019 at 2:37 PM, Southernhighlander said:

and since our property is comunal, I cannot be held liable either because it would affect her.

The above is completely inaccurate.  Your wages, dividends, interest, pensions, and anything titled in your name alone are all reachable by Judgement Creditors.

I have also successfully "pierced the corporate veil" in fraud cases.  

You would be accurate in cases of negligence that you would not be able to attach property titled as husband and wife but not fraud.  And if your wife is a co-owner in your LLC, the negligence can flow to both of you if it can be shown that your are under-capitalized or under-insured.

You should request a criminal fraud investigation by the FBI if you are across a state line from Corson.

Handling this in a civil courtroom will be highly costly and frustrating if you can even get there before they go bankrupt.

What you described sounds like financial fraud and also sounds like their lawyer is part of the fraud.  FBI loves going after lawyers

Anyone who is using Neck tags or booklets attached to your bottle necks by elastic cord or string--did you have to get a COLA approval before release to retail?  I have seen old posts where some were putting them on with cocktail recipes and the like, but I was thinking about more of a consumer education tag to explain , for example, why American Single Malt can't be called Scotch, or why a bottle is labeled Agave Spirits rather than tequila, etc.  Thought it would be a great way to educate newer consumers as to what certain craft spirits are, how they are made, and identify how they are different.

( All true information, not puffing)But does it require a COLA?

On 2/17/2019 at 8:27 AM, Southernhighlander said:

Direct fired electric is okay but you should not put in low wines

I have never heard that before. Can you please explain?