38°

Good advice starcat, thank you.

Thank you bluestar. I'm interested in hearing anyone experiences with propane and steam out there?

8 hours ago, captnKB said:

@38° how large of a distillery are you planning to build? Ive helped a few folks set up small distilleries with 100 gallon stills (steam heated) on single phase and made it work.

It will take some careful electrical planning but is doable

We are hoping for a 200 gallon still. No mashing in the facility. I'd love to chat and hear about the issues faced and some solutions.

Yes that's right, we are at the source in the mountains and rural/vacation community. We are hoping to only run 1 or 2x per week in order to have time for tending to other parts of the business.

We do have sewer, I believe its around $90 / month.

So, at capacity would we expect 3 times the water numbers above potentially?

We are in the process of trying to estimate utility costs. We are looking at a propane fired (maybe 750k btu?) boiler, 200 gal vodka still, two 400 gal fermenters. We won't be doing our own mash. We will also have an attached tasting room.

This is what I have so far based on some info found searching the forums here. Would anyone out there be willing to post information on how much they consume? Am I on the right track here? Thank you for taking a look I appreciate all of the help we've gotten here.

Propane

Cost $1.99 per gallon

Est. usage 583 gal per month at full capacity

Total monthly cost $1,161

I used some actuals someone posted in another thread that they use $225 of natural gas at $4.32 MCF - I also used a 1 MCF to 11.2 gallon conversion (is this accurate?) So, (($225 / $4.32)*11.2) * $1.99 = $1,161

Water Use

$290 per month service charge

Use Cost $1.52 100 cf

I am told by my distilling advisor that we can expect to use 3k gallons of water in an average month if we have a closed cooling system. 3-4 times that if not closed. With a public bathroom as well, and assuming no closed cooling I am ball-parking 20,000 gallons of use per month. Does this seem right?

20,000 gal * 0.133681 = 2,674 cf (conversion to cf, is this correct?)

2,674 / 100 * $1.52 = $40.64 use cost

Electricity Utilization

Cost on average $0.24 kw

I have no idea what we will consume electricity wise - we are in the process of filling out the details on equipment and loads this week. Thought on usage here or an easy way to estimate?

Very helpful, thank you!

Agree whiskeytango. They're helpful folks and so far have been very supportive.

Thank you Paul. I've been on your site looking at pro series stills as there are very few online resources for getting ideas about pricing and specs. Very helpful resource.

If we are looking at 200 gallons and doing a range of spirits, including vodka, what power draws and electrical specs should we expect? We are leaning towards steam in order to reduce our downtime risk with future California electric power shutdowns, but are considering both options.

Thank you starcat. Sounds like my next logical step is to see what my load may be and contact the power company...

Thank you very much. 

So, for barrel storage you need to be h3? For instance, we have a tasting room, production floor, bottled product storage taxes paid space, and a large garage intended for barrel storage. All in one building but distinct spaces. I know our architect will code review for us, but I'm trying to point them in the right direction.

Thanks for all of the advice so far.

Thank you Tom. Looks like the specs for our space if very undersized. Bummer. I'll be in touch with the owner and electric company to try and brainstorm some solutions.

This makes sense. Incredibly useful. How do folks store barrels in f1 if limited to 120 gallons?

No sprinklers.

We are looking at 150 - 200 gallon still.

Spirit storage, not sure but would try to do whatever it takes to remain below whatever limits we have to if financially beneficial.

Circling back here - thank you everyone for the great advice. The meeting went wonderfully and everyone is excited about the project. Planning has already made some concessions. The Building Department essentially wants us to point them to the code for the various aspects of our operation and buildout, and if everything checks out they say they are good. He did state he thought is may be H3, which I am not so sure of. So, lot's of work to tell our story from here. Also, everyone pointed at the water district as our big roadblock, not fire. So, who knows.

Hi All -

I'll start by saying there aren't many options for buildings in our area to set up the operation. The space we are looking at is two units, combined into one space. Each unit has 110a Single Phase service. I am way out of my element when it comes to understanding what options we may have here. So, can someone please throw out considerations, challenges, issues, things to research for us? Is the set up a non-starter?

Thank you for the advice.

Thank you. I will get some time with the Fire Chief next week as well hopefully. The main battalion is one block away so hopefully that is a good thing. Initially he seemed most interested if we would have healthy food as there are limited options for dining in the area!

18 minutes ago, bluestar said:

So whole heartedly agree. The Fire Marshall is usually the real make-or-break, but is the toughest, since if they are not already educated on distilleries, you are more likely educating them rather than them providing guidance to you at this stage. Nevertheless, better to deal with this early on, because the Fire Marshall can throw the wrench into the works AT ANY POINT in setting up your distillery. You can even go through full construction and inspection and approval to start operation, and if the FM returns and determines something does not satisfy their fire safety requirements, you are shut down. There is generally no appeal.

This is very helpful, thank you for the guidance. As of early discussions we have the support of the Fire Chief (as long as we do what is required by code he is happy,  and seems thrilled to have us in the neighborhood, literally 1 block away) as well as our County Supervisor.

Based on guidance so far I plan on outlining the business at a high level and highlighting the tasting room aspect and being clear our production is small scale. I also plan to speak to the value to our depressed small town and bringing folks to the area. Head of Economic Development will be in the meeting too.

We wont be dealing with grain and the still will be electric. We will have some barrel storage as well as bottle and in process product.

Searching and researching MAQ and AHJ now.

Hi All -

We're in the planning phase of our distillery project which would be the first in our County. The head of the planning department and head of the building department have requested a meeting next week to discuss the project and our preferred building and location.

Thus far, they've made a zoning determination based based on prior determinations for a brewery. All they know is it will be a craft distillery with a tasting room.

Our advisor has given some sage advice, but, I really would love to hear what anyone else might have experienced.

What should we come prepared to discuss? Anyone out there have experience similar? How should we approach the meeting?

Thank you for anything you can offer. 

On 12/22/2019 at 5:41 PM, Glenlyon said:

Numbers are meaningless in the face of creativity. In fact, if you stop and think about it - you can only generate as much revenue as you can produce alcohol. So, the size of still and your anticipated production capacity will soon dictate your potential revenue/cash flow. Remember, spending two years creating a business plan isn't about creating a plan for your business - it's to help you understand the dimensions of the business - so, everything is thought out. That way, when you open your doors and come into contact with the enemy - you'll know how to maneuver in the heat of battle.   

Good points and advice. However, I still feel an intense need to be able to build the best financial model I can to prove whether the business can survive or not. If the numbers don't work, it makes no sense to invest time and money on this project. 

Being in a small vacation community, it's important for me to be able to understand seasonality, as well as potential sales. I want to "right size" the operation to our market.

Less science than art I am sure.

Great info as I'm in a similar phase. Trying to estimate sales to determine scope is no easy task with no operations nearby. If anyone would be willing to send similar stats and data as supplied to KEL I'd be grateful. 

So far I've been using what data I can glean from nearby wine industry tasting rooms and vacation rental data to predict seasonality.