gordon

Yes.

We just complete doing exactly this. We submitted the change on 4/1 and it was approved on 6/18; and only after I started hounding them to find out why this was taking so long.

Good luck!

What's the ABV that you guys are getting off the fermented juice before you distill?

Thanks Charles! Happy New Year!

Thanks Charles!

I greatly appreciate your responses and the information you are willing to share. I'd really to come visit you sometime and checkout your operations. It sounds like you have a good handle on things and I'd greatly appreciate learning more on how you do things. If there's a good time of the year that works best for you, and assuming you would allow us to visit, please let me know. Thanks again and Happy Holidays!

Charles, I was just reviewing your procedural comments above and notice you stated 'Spirits in production at end of quarter on 5110.40...' Are you only filing these once a quarter? If so, how did you manage that? I'm doing the 5100 series once a month and the 5000.24 twice each month. It sure would be nice if I didn't have to do these so frequently! Thanks.

Grape Neutral Spirits, that's awesome!!

Thanks! I may PM you on a couple other things.

Cheers!

Sorry, was typing when you just posted your last response. Now that's very interesting!!

Thanks again!

Thanks. I think we have it covered on our end and I appreciate the further clarification, as it all helps!! (Especially for a newbie like me!)

I guess what I was also trying to accomplish was to help the wineries from their end. All the wineries we have talked to have never dealt with this and therefore are not sure what they need to do on their end. They normally just purchase GNS and therefore have never had to deal with a transfer-in-bond situation. Maybe they don't need a form, but I'd find that unusual being how tightly regulated DSP's are. But then again... maybe wineries have it much easier than us!

Thanks Again!

Thanks Bluestar, that's what I suspected. So, what form would a winery use, if anyone has dealt with this?

Thanks again Charles, your info is very helpful.

One last question, does the winery use the 5100.16 form on their end to receive the spirits back to them or do they use some other form? In looking at this form, it shows the Registry/Permit Number as starting with "DSP-" which is not an appropriate prefix for a winery. If not, what for should they be using?

Thanks Charles, that's what others have told me also, so that's what we will do. (Or, we will add the tax to the distilled product's price.)

Cheers.

Hello,

Is anyone distilling products for wineries for the wineries own use to fortify wines? If so, are you using a transfer-in-bond (TIB) on BOTH the input and output side of the production process to handle this? Or, are you receiving it in under a TIB and then selling it back to the [wine] manufacturer (non-retail sale)? If the later, obviously no retail sales tax would be collected or due, but would the distiller be required to pay excise taxes on this sale?

Technically, it's the same alcohol (that was initially received in the form of wine) that is going back to them? So, it seems a TIB should be used in both directions and ultimately it is the wineries responsibility to pay the excise tax.

Who is doing this and how are you handling this situation?

Thanks!

You have to register (or re-register) via the pay.gov site. After getting registered, we received a new user id. Logging in using this id now allows us to see 'private' forms and all the above forms are now included.

Tyler - Looking at getting a quote shortly, I'll let you know if it comes through...

Thanks Bluestar! There isn't really a "next" but there are sub-pages, an Adjustments page and a Liabilities page. One the Liabilities page, there is a "Finished" button that then takes you to a submit page. Missed that when I first went through this thing, but now got it figured out because of your suggestion. Thanks again.

whiskeytango - we're in the same boat! Good luck!

We finally got a logon for the Pay.gov site and are now able to submit TTB forms electronically. Stupid question, but are the forms (in this case the 5000.24) submitted automatically when you "save" the form? On other sites like this, saving the form usually only means it's been saved so you can come back and work on it later without loosing any of the information you previously entered. After you are done, normally you "submit" the form, but I don't see anything like that here. (However, I do see a "Submitted" option on the left-side menu and if I click on it, it says "No submitted forms are available for display.")

What am I missing here? How do I "submit" the form??

Thanks!

Hello,

We are trying to determine if anyone makes a bottle that look antique or is imperfect (small bubbles in the glass, uneven surface, varying thickness, etc.) and are having minimal success.

Does anyone know a manufacturer that does this? If so, can you please share??

Thanks!

Thanks Brian.

Unfortunately, I still can't get it to work.

When I try that, it gets me to the same screen/info as I posted above. When I click on the link (TTB General Information), I get this message:

• The system could not retrieve the requested form from the server.
  

If I click on View PDF, I get:

The system has experienced an unrecoverable error.

Maybe it's something on my end??

According to the TTB site, several of these forms can be filed via www.pay.gov/. For whatever reason, I can't figure out how to file anything via this site. Once I've logged in, I go to the Find All Forms - by Agency Name, locate Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau and the following is all that comes up:

TTB General Information View PDF Form Number: TTB INFO TTB customers interested in filing electronically, should visit the following site for more information: http://www.ttb.gov/epayment/epayment.shtml Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau < Department of the Treasury https://www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstanceRequiredLogin.html?agencyFormId=16848681

What am I doing wrong??

It took me a while to figure out what you were talking about, but I finally got it, and that definitely helps. For everyone else, I've summarized a few things and included some links below:

TTB F 5110.11 – Monthly Report of Storage Operations (http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511011.pdf)

Completed using proof gallons – Monthly, due by the 15^th of the following month.

http://www.ttb.gov/forms_tutorials/f511011/f511011_tutorial.html

The purpose of completing TTB Form 5110.11 is to report storage account activity for a Beverage or Industrial Distilled Spirits Plant. This report is to be filed if the operation of warehouseman is shown on your permit and registration. If there is no activity during the month, you are required to file the report showing zeros.

Send to:

TTB National Revenue Center

(Form 5110.11)

550 Main Street, Room 8002

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202

TTB F 5100.28 – Monthly Report of Processing Operations (http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511028.pdf)

Completed using proof gallons - Monthly, due by the 15^th of the following month.

http://www.ttb.gov/forms_tutorials/f511028/f511028_tutorial.html

Form 5110.28 must be filed if your plant conducts processing (rectifying), bottling, packaging or denaturing operations. You are required to file this report each month. If there is no activity during any months, you are required to file the report showing zeros.

Send to:

TTB National Revenue Center

(Form 5110.28)

550 Main Street, Room 8002

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202

TTB F 5110.40 – Monthly Report of Production Operations (http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511040.pdf)

Completed using proof gallons - Monthly, due by the 15^th of the following month.

http://www.ttb.gov/forms_tutorials/f511040/f511040_tutorial.html

Form 5110.40 must be filed if distilling/production operations are shown on permit and on registration. You are required to file this report each month. If there is no activity during the month, you are required to file the report showing zeros.

Send to:

Director, National Revenue Center

(Form 5110.40)

550 Main Street, Room 8002

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202

TTB F 5110.43 – Monthly Report of Processing (Denaturing) Operations (http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511043.pdf)

Completed in wine gallons (regular US liquid gallons) - Monthly, due by the 15^th of the following month.

http://www.ttb.gov/forms_tutorials/f511043/f511043_tutorial.html

Report in this section recovered denatured spirits and/or recovered articles users return to you for restoration or redenaturation. You may also report any denatured spirits or articles that you recover and/or either restore or redenatured.

Send to:

Director, National Revenue Center

(Form 5110.43)

550 Main Street, Ste. 8002

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-5215

TTB F 5000.24 – (http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f500024.pdf)

Completed for US$ amounts – Semi-Monthly returns are normally due no later than the 14^th day after the last day of the return period. Except for the September periods the 16th-26th shall be filed no later than Sept. 29th. The period 27th-30thshall be filed no later than October 14th. (3 returns due in September)

http://www.ttb.gov/forms/helpful_hints500024.shtml

http://www.ttb.gov/forms/smartform-user-guide500024.pdf

http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s10-bw.pdf

Send to:

Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau

Excise Tax (F 5000.24)

P O Box 790353

St. Louis, MO 63179-0353

We paid just under $4k to have 24' put in with a 24" x 24" catch basin at the end. This include cutting out and removing the existing concrete, but does not include the additional work to connect it up to the sewer system. "Installation only," as this price does not include the actual cost of the trench and basin either.

Zurn - http://www.zurn.com/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?NodeKey=390439

They work great!

Rich, thanks for the post. I'll send you an email with the responses to your questions.

We have gone ahead and set things up, but I'm not sure if we did things the best way we could have.

I'll email you shorty. Thanks again.

I agree, these are confusing and I could use some help figuring things also. Seems this might be something ADI or our local guilds could provide to benefit its members and increase awareness to make sure we are reporting correctly??