stevenstone

What's in the fine print? The biggest issue in WA is the ungodly mandatory markup. What will the State excise tax be if either initiative passes? That's where I'd focus some attention.

The way I understand it, I-1100 would leave the "liquor tax" the same but eliminate the "mark-up" portion.

For I-1105, taxes are a big question mark. Basically, it will have the board recommend to the legislature by the end of next year a tax rate that will project to generate at least as much revenue as the current system.

In Washington currently, the state controls the distribution and retail sale of spirits (sells from the distillery are also allowed as long as local ingredients are used in the manufacturing). For a small craft distiller, the state will fill special orders (products not carried on the store shelves) as long as he/she can generate demand. Any bar, restaurant, or citizen can order a case of a distiller's product and the state will call and ask them to bring the necessary amounts to the distribution center.

With only 500 or so state stores that have limited hours, the public loses a little on efficiency and availability, but we the small distillers gain in terms of a level playing field and guaranteed distribution.

But, this might all be changing. We're facing two initiatives on the ballot this fall. Both will privatize the sale of liquor. However, the first I-1100 would also deregulate distribution such that manufacturers could sale directly to licensed retailers. The second initiative I-1105 is just like the first except that it maintains the three system. As you would imagine, there is big money at play. Costco is backing the 1st and big distribution companies are backing the 2nd.

The change to the Washington laws has the potential to cause a large amount of disruption and chaos to those of us that are operating in Washington. We are trying to understand how the changes will affect us. It would help to know how other states operate.

If you operate in state that allows you to self distribute, would you make a post or send me a message. I'd be interested to hear your impressions.

Alternatively, for those of you with far reaching distribution, which state do you think has the best laws with regards to the small distiller?

Regards,

Steven Stone

Sound Spirits

Seattle, WA

Young's Market and Southern-Odom are supporting a competing initiative in Washington. As you guess it, they want to leave the the three tier system in place.

It's going to get really interesting here in Washington when the public goes to the voting booth this fall.

The Wall Street Journal today is reporting that Costco Wholesale is supporting proposed changes to laws in Washington state that would allow retailers to buy alcohol from manufacturers instead of distributors. The warehouse chain doesn't like that it currently cannot buy in bulk, but instead must buy wine and beer for each store separately, through a local distributor.

This is what ultimately will get the law changed and why the distributors want HR 5034. Big manufacturers want to deal directly with big retailers. Is this good or bad for you guys, who are not big anything? I think it's good. The 3-tier system benefits no one but the distributors. Certainly not the consumers.

Bill Owen's book explored this topic some in his Modern Moonshine Techniques. It's a fascinating question. In the end, wouldn't you say that it comes down to proof and pudding? What is the difference in how they taste?

Many are using Carl and Holstein still these days. I'm curious to see how they'll weigh in.

So, those of you out there with DSP's (as opposed to the home distillers who shouldn't be on this board) who are making whiskey commercially, what are your thoughts? How do you make whiskey, and why?

thanks,

Jonathan

Keep us posted on what you find out. It was my understanding that 2-row was the favorite for breweries because it has a slightly higher yield.

http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/schwarz.html

Nice interview, Gwydion!

Where are you sourcing your 55 gallon plastic drums for the spent grain?

Never mind, quite a few vendors out there now that I've looked around.

I'm still working on the hoist idea. If you untie the bottom for unloading, can you unload half the bag and tie it back up? Or is there no stopping the flow once you let 'er rip.

As for getting the pallets off the truck, I'll have to talk to the courier about that. Ideally, they'll ship on a truck that has lift gate which can lower them to the ground.

Sure, you should be able to wheel them around with a pallet jack. I'm assuming you'll be using an overhead crane/winch to hoist them up for unloading? We use something very similar to these bags, we call them supersacks and ours are filled with calcium carbonate for use in silicones.

I guess my question would be how do you plan on getting them off of the truck?

Does anyone out there have any experience using 2000lb grain bags? If the freight company delivers on a pallet, I want to be able to wheel these around with a pallet jack instead of a forklift.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Orderinfo/Mini_Bulk.htm

While I'm at it, someone mentioned to me that a distiller shouldn't necessarily worry about getting his/her grains cleaned. Anyone have any experience with cleaned vs non grains?

Status Update: I have my WA State Craft License now. I just finished my TTB interview last Friday. Hopefully we'll be distilling in another few months.

Marc, I'm planning on being there.

Are Holstein or Carl stills UL certified? My fire dept is wanting UL certified everything.

Part of my production plan is to use natural gas burners for my heat source. I'm nervous that the city is going to give me a lot of grief about this.

We are planning on having an exhaust and vent for the burner that will be surrounded by a brick wall. So, I feel that we've addressed any concern that it's an "outdoor" burner.

I'm making plans to connect with an ME on this. Has anyone had any experience with their municipalities that helped alleviate the local mechanical department's concerns?

Send me a message on the side if you'd rather talk off-line.

Cheers,

Steven

Washington State just increased the "markup" at the state stores. So, we are dealing with increased taxes here as well. And, no there was not a break for the small guys.

I've seen rumors of an increase at the Federal level. Can anyone confirm this?

Please add us to the list of distilleries in the process of getting started.

I'm actually hoping to talk to my congressman Jim McDermott (House Ways and Means) tomorrow night to try and make our case.

Stone Distillery

Seattle, WA

Thanks...

She's actually coming around. With help from Robert's drinkboy.com and a few books, I've been able to get her to start drinking more than just gin and tonics!

Hi,

I'm another distiller in the making trying to get started in Seattle. I finally have my funding together and need to find a space, order equipment, and get the licensing process started. But, first I'm getting married. Yes, I know priorities, right? It's going to be a busy year.

Glad to be here,

~S