bradocaster Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 We were told that most wheat in our area has a small amount of vomitoxn. i'm sending a sample of the wheat we have to be tested. my question is, will vomitoxn make it's way into a distilled spirit? anyone had trouble with this? Thanks, Brad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denver Distiller Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Are you using this wheat raw, or having it malted? Vomitoxin can get washed away during the malting process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradocaster Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 we are using it raw. i just read a study from North Carolina state university that claimed it wouldn't get into the ethanol, rather be concentrated in the mash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denver Distiller Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I suppose it depends on how much of it is in your samples. The washing action is limited when you're malting, but since you aren't, that's zero help. DON levels have been on the rise of late, apparently, but my experience is on the brewing side, where DON (vomitoxin) leads to gushing in packaged beer... something you and I don't have to worry about. The concern isn't the toxin getting over in the distillate (it won't). The concern is any off flavors/aromas you might get from the wheat, which, since diseased, is vulnerable to all sorts of stuff. DON in very high amounts can lead to problems with attenuation, but that's unlikely. Two suggestions: one, stay away from this wheat if you can help it. If you can't, then tread lightly, doing a test mash/distillation if it's possible. Keep a close eye on all your "normal" readings in your measurements of the mash/fermenation, and if anything looks funny, you should be concerned. Edit to add... you have to be careful about using this stillage as animal feed. It's called vomitoxin for a reason, as I'd imagine you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradocaster Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Thanks. i guess the DON is now in the fields, and will take a while to go away. i'm having a sample tested to see how much(if any) is present. thanks again for the help. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Curious how much it costs to have a sample tested? And what does a sample cover? 1 season, 1 batch, 1 field, 1 acre? Personally, this seems like one of those things you will look back at and say "why did i walk down this path?". Lots of other things to worry about and spend money on, the toxin content of your raw material shouldn't be one of them.... Best of luck, -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denver Distiller Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Siebel Institute does a full work up on a .5 kg sample for <$400, if I recall (it's been a while). It is VERY important to do your best to get a representative sample. State Ag. Departments can help with those procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradocaster Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Scott, i talked to trilogy labs. they asked for a 1000ML sample. $65 to test specifically for DON. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The concern isn't the toxin getting over in the distillate (it won't). The concern is any off flavors/aromas you might get from the wheat, which, since diseased, is vulnerable to all sorts of stuff. The above concern shouldn't be underestimated. Consistency is key to customers remaining loyal. So what happens if a test comes back positive for DON? Is the grain discarded? Are you testing a sample from a purchased tote of grain, or from a field before harvest? Just curious for more info on this topic, thanks for the replies! -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradocaster Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 It's from a 50 bl bag. the crazy thing seems to be the unreliability of the testing. with the FDA acceptable level being 2 ppm, it doesn't take much to be considered bad. What if it comes back bad? i don't know. I heard of a truck driver delivering corn to cargil, he failed the test for DON, got back in line and passed the second time trough. i don't know what to think of it! Brad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miller Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I have more experience with vom than I would care to admit. NY white wheat has serious problems some years with it. I can do testing for people at $20.00 per sample. representative samples are critical. If you have less than 2ppm it's not an issue more than that it can be. You can do your own testing by visual exam. If you see any chalky berries you have an issue, if you see any berries with pink color on them you are over 15 ppm and you do not want that wheat. Also you should know barley and even corn can have vom issues as well as wheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seventh son Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I know this thread is a bit old, but my potential source for wheat is telling me that they average 3ppm DON. There seems to be some scant evidence that it affects the mashing and fermentation efficiency, but at this level it may not have a big impact. Is there evidence that it affects the flavor of the distilled spirits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craft Distillery Resources Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 If you are giving your spent mash away then I would worry about that. Hate to make a hog or cow sick and loose a good farmer. It can build up in your mash if you are sour mashing. Making the problem worse. 2 ppm is the limit I was told last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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