GCD

Thanks for the suggestions. I will investigate.

We build our own stills and I have not been able to locate a company that manufactures agitators for stills. It seems Mr. Google only sees the word "still" because all I get are stills WITH agitators. I found one in China but it is very low HP and RPM. (Oak stills) I can do single phase or 3 phase. The stills are 175 gallons. This is for distillery use. We are not going to become still manufacturers. I would need 3.

No longer available

On 10/28/2020 at 7:32 PM, Dehner Distillery said:

I have bought about 300 barrels from MGP, only 1 has been bone dry.

 

Yes the % of this order was way above "normal"

On 10/30/2020 at 5:15 PM, BCRob said:

Sorry to say it, but you shouldn't have accepted the delivery. If the BOL stated full barrels and you signed for it even when the driver pointed out that 2/5 barrels were empty I'm afraid you can't entirely place blame on the supplier. For all you know (not saying this is likely, but it's possible) they could have been emptied in transit.

If your complaints fall on deaf ears, all you can really do is vote with your feet and not use the broker/supplier again. I don't have much experience buying sourced product, but I thought normal practice anyway was to pay per proof gallon/LAA and have it delivered in a tote?

Yes you are right about accepting delivery. It was just that I was in a rush and felt like it would be taken  care of by Ultra Pure. They did credit one barrel. And the barrels were BONE DRY and I put water in one and measured the leakage and they would have been empty 54 days after filling. Thanks for your reply. I got busy and forgot to check back here!

On 11/3/2020 at 9:31 AM, SlickFloss said:

I procured 200,903 barrels for clients, aged product and new fills, last year. MGP will make good on any empty barrels that make their way to your facility if you bought the barrels from them. If you bought through one of their partners which utilized them for storage you will be out of luck if that supplier decides not to make you whole. 

 

Our guys will usually flag barrels upon loading and credit customers accounts instead of sending them dry, but again I am a broker for them I'm not just using them for storage.

 

I have seen/heard from clients of less than 200 barrels delivered dry, I would estimate I have sourced about 1.6M barrels from MGP.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I did switch to buy direct from MGP. I think it will be ok now.

I do purchase through Ultra Pure and I did bark up their tree...a lot. They did credit me for one barrel.  Regards MGP- they shipped the barrels and they do the bill of lading and they knew the barrels were empty when they loaded them. The driver who delivered them told me they were empty and he does not handle barrels for a living. 

Just wondering if anyone has ever purchased barrels of aged product from MGP and gotten completely empty barrels. I buy the barrels through Ultra Pure and I purchased 5 barrels of 2016 bourbon. When they arrived 2 of the 5 barrels were BONE DRY- not even damp. The barrels were pallet stored (filled through the head) and the barrels were produced by Speyside cooperage in Ohio. I have had another barrel from Speyside that leaked so bad I had to move the product to another barrel. 

From every one I talk to MGP will normally make this situation right but after a month and a half they said "tough luck" we sell barrels "as is, where is". 

We only source a little from MGP so we are not important enough for them to make this right. This is the worst business practice ever. I get that there will be some loss for angel's share and some minor barrel seepage but empty after 4 years is just BS. They also charged freight on full barrels so that is FRAUD. I am going to take legal action so if there is anyone else in the same boat let me know. Maybe class action suit.

BTW I normally buy new make so have not had issues. This is the first time buying aged product.

Sorry they are Tacopal barrels from Portugal but they say "USA" on the head. They came from MGP (Ultra Pure) with bourbon so I have to assume they are using American white oak.

I have 18 barrels of MGP rye (95% rye) that is the same as Bullet and many other top brands. It is just over 2 1/2 years old. Asking $2500 per barrel. The barrels are made by Kelvin Cooperage in Louisville and #3 char.

Also have 25 barrels of the MGP 21% rye that is also just over 2 1/2 years old. Asking $2200 per barrel. Some of these are in Kelvin barrels and some in barrels from Mexico. # 3 char.

Both of these taste great and much older than the age.

Bourbon is located in Kentucky. 

On 7/1/2015 at 3:56 PM, John McKee said:

Lucidi,

The only time I'm not chill, is when the ADI Forums are used in the same way as homedistiller.org. This is a forum for professionals to share professional advice. If you aren't a PE in at least one of the areas I mentioned above, then you are not qualified to offer professional advice....especially on something so important, period.

The advice I was giving, which is the advice we all should be giving, is "seek out a professional opinion" especially in an area as important as the safety of your future distillery, its employees and your well being. The horrible accident at Silver Trail Distillery is your wake up call.

Humbly,

McKee

Just FYI if you read the report on Silver Trail you would see one thing in particular that does not make sense. The manufacturer of the still said it was rated at 8 psi I think it was. The still had a 150 psi WATER HEATER pressure relief valve!! The report did not say who installed the PR valve but I am guessing the distillery. Most small still guys will not install safety equipment to avoid the liability. 

A still should be an OPEN system and the pressure will not go above maybe 1/4 psi. It is necessary to have some pressure to move the vapor through but it will not go above 1/2 psi unless you have some blockage or something. You can get Apollo PR valves for 5 psi that are more than you will need unless you have a still made from tin foil. 

You have to remember that one psi spread over the surface of a 36 inch diameter still is about 1,000 lbs of actual force over that area! 

By the way the one thing the report does not clearly state is whether the injuries sustained were from fire or from hot water. Water at 200 degrees will cause severe burns as well. And the suspicious thing about the report is that the still blew out of the building. At 8 psi or even 10 or 20 psi it would most likely split open and not "blow up."

There are a lot of unanswered questions. 

Above all get a pressure gauge and relief valve with LOW psi. Very low.

The trouble with most codes is they are not written for craft distillers. The other trouble is most people (inspectors) do not know the code and due to some incidents like the JB fire and Heaven Hill and Wild Turkey they look at alcohol like it is gasoline! It is NOT. I had the fire dept come out and they said they tried to light a barrel on fire and poured diesel on it and it still would not burn! Now lightning...that is a different animal. 

If you find an intelligent and sensible inspector they will know that ethanol does not burn even close to gasoline. But even in Kentucky there are no sensible inspectors! The thing is the test for flammability is "closed cup" meaning if a vapor forms and is ignitable then the liquid is flammable. Well your distillery is NOT a closed cup and as long as you have air circulation you will not accumulate enough vapor to ignite. The insurance industry states that within 1 meter of a vapor source the vapor is no longer ignitable. And the vapor is heavier than air so the source of ignition must be below 18 inches from the floor.

And just to be clear water does not put out an ethanol fire UNLESS the water entirely covers the fire. So if you have a fire about 6 feet in diameter and spray with water hose it will most likely not go out. The water provides a medium for the alcohol to "move" with the water meaning the fire will spread with the water. 

And do not confuse the story of distillery explosion in KY with this issue. The cause there was completely different. And by the way wood and paper and other things burn too.