Pyrate

Update: I tried filtering it with a 0.5 micron filter and it worked. But I think the filter was some kind of "full" at the end because it started to let more and more through. I had about 100 Liters at 45% ABV. The temperature of the liquid was about 15 degree Celsius, I didn't chill it beforehand! So for any person that might read this in the future: In some cases it might work to filter out the haze / louche / cloudiness in your final product. In my case it worked fine and the taste is very good after the filtration. I expect the crushed juniper to be responsible for the haze and I think we had too much botanicals (in weight) in this recipe.

During the process of dilution the liquid reaches temperatures above the average room temperature. If you mix water and alcohol the chemical process releases heat so that the liquid becomes warmer. But I already saw what you described with "giving it time" in another case. Today I will conduct some experiments with this batch. The thing is: I have to be certain that there is no haze in the bottle 😉

Thanks for your input and (marketing) ideas. At the moment its only about this batch and it has to be clear in the bottle. The different methods are clear but I didn't found any recommendation about the filter type and size (e.g. 0.5 micron). Has anyone experience with filtering the haze? I want to use the Enolmatic bottler and can apply a filter cartridge there.

Hey Folks, I had a new recipe in my still. 3 days maceration, a lot of crushed juniper, all distilled in the pot with some reflux in the column. We diluted to drinking strength at 45% ABV. It got immediately cloudy. Right now we are discussing the best way to get rid of the louche before we bottle the gin. Adding neutral at the same ABV might be a way. But the dilution we need seems to be to high. We tested and the results are that we need 2 parts neutral at 45% ABV to 1 part of the gin at 45% ABV to get rid of the cloudiness. We are wondering if filtering might be a solution? Has anyone experience in filtering cloudy gins to get rid of the haze? I have the Enolmatic bottler and therefore can put some filter cartridges at work. Might 0.5 micron help here? Do we have to chill or does it work because the haze is already visible at room temperature? Thank you!

Hi Guys,we are going together with another craft company and therefore we are selling our beautiful Arnold Holstein 150l still. Maybe someone here might be interested. If so, please get in touch.I have a picture for you and some details: waterbath electrical heating 27kW 150l volume agitator botanical basket copper helmet copper column with 3 plates and reflux column steanless steal cylinder behind the column for a catalysator (not included) or 3 botanical baskets (included) for vapour infusion fresh-water cooler automated forerun, hearts and tails divider siemens logitec control system extensive safety system (e.g. cooling water failure, pressure etc.) 10 bar cleaning pump with CIP cleaning in every part of the still Year of manufacture 2015. In very good shape. Located in Cologne, Germany.

Hey Guys, I am still working on the mixing / blending vessel solution. I have a new question: you recommended the use of a circle pump instead of an agitator. But one issue seems to come up with that: how do you make sure there is no product left in the pipes and the pump after mixing? Isn't it a additional issue to clean that stuff etc. compared to an agitator? Thank you for your additional insight!

@Silk City Distillers your approach is to develop something deeper and better than what's out there at the moment. But I guess there is a downside with emulsifiers? Otherwise there would have been brands that use it. Sugar at a low level seems problematic, but at a higher level it would be able to carry aromas and to be stable like a sirup. Am I getting it right? Most producers use concentrated alcoholic distillates and dilute down with water until they reach <0.5% ABV. I think that is the most common way to produce alcohol free alternatives today.

Hey Guys, this discussion is a bit older but the topic is more and more a thing. Any developments regarding non-alcoholic spirits around here?

@glisade so you diluted bit by bit until the taste was almost the same as the 2L recipe? Did you experience that some flavors/botanicals changed more with upscaling than others?

Thank you for the video, very interesting. @glisade just to understand it right: you scaled your 2L still recipe linear to your 600L still and (you think) because of the longer heat up etc. in the 600L still you get a stronger flavored gin, right? Then you dilute the 600L gin distillate a bit (you make 100L to 125L) to get your original taste back, right? I really want to dive deeper in this matter. In the video she makes a 25 times concentrated distillate which is a huge multiplier. But maybe here are guys that make a multi-shot on purpose?

We tried a different paper for our labels and indeed it did get better. But we do not like this paper and want to switch back 😉 The Ferrinox seems to be a bigger device and more expensive. We are looking in the Primera price range...

Hey Guys, I want to discuss a polarizing matter in the gin world: Big gin distilleries and even so-called "craft" or "handmade" gin distilleries distill a concentrated gin that is later diluted and stretched with neutral spirit to a multiple. The pros are obviously that they have less work because they make much more gin out of one distillation compared to the "one-shot" way. I am still doing it the "one-shot" way and haven't dried the concentred gin method so far. That means I distill gin and the distillate is only diluted with water to bottling strength. Nothing else is added in my case. In the EU both ways are treated the same. The concentrate-way is labeled "distilled gin" the one-shot-method also. Both distilled gins can be labeled "dry" if they contain no sugar and "London" if the botanicals are distilled together. So, the customer can't distinguish between the methods. I hope you get what I mean. Now I have some questions: Has anybody of you experience with the concentrate-method? Is it worse or same or maybe better from a quality point of view? Or does it depend on the actual recipe? How do you translate a one-shot recipe into a concentrate-method? Simply multiplying the botanicals or is it more complicated? How much can you concentrate? 5-times, 10-times, 100-times? What's the exact dilution method? Do you dilute at bottling strength or at distilled strength with 96% GNS? Do you have any other suggestions regarding this matter? I am looking forward to an interesting discussion.

@glisade Thank you, optical sensor is exactly what I am looking for. Has the optical sensor any Cons? I can't find the Bottle-Matic with Optical Sensor in Europe... Are there any other alternatives?

Hey Guys, we have problems with the Primera 360/362 labeler. Maybe some of guys can provide help. The Primera 360/362 has a small pin that is pushed by the label. This pin is the sensor which checks start and ending of a label. So, now what's the problem: every 10 to 15 labels one label sticks to this small pin. This does not only destroy the label and we have to manually scratch it from the bottle, we also need to clean the sensor pin after that because its becoming very sticky from the label-glue. I am looking for a similar labeler to the Primera 360/362 without such a pin. Maybe there are labeler that have an optical sensor instead of that mechanical pin? Do you have any tipps for me? Thank you!

Thank you @glisade for the detailed information. You don't have any pics to show your setup/drums? Offtopic: Guys I really enjoy discussing this stuff with you. Here in Germany there isn't much of a community of distillers etc. They make a big secret of everything and usually are not open to share insights... Therefore, thank you! But one thing remains not clear to me: do your approaches work for sweet liquors where you mix/blend sugar/honey or something else that doesn't mix as easy as spirit plus water? Have you tried that?

@glisade Do you care about grounding and electrostatic charge? And your Mixing Power is muscle only? I love gravity too and also Not changing tanks/vessels if Not necessary. Do you have any safety meassures in place when you let spirit flow from a lifted tank to an other tank? Do you use hoses/pipes or do you just open a tap/faucet and let the stuff Flow into a manhole?

After some hours more research I am back. Some of the people here in the forum are using open stainless steel tanks with big volumes (I guess 500 or more liters) without any top to mix their spirits with a paddle. Is it just me or is that method a bit risky because of the alcohol vapors? Since you guys recommend the pump in circulation method, have you used it to solve/mix sugar (sirup) for sweet liquors? What are your steps? I guess you start with weighting and adding of the components in the tank (spirit, add water and maybe sugar etc.). After that you attach the pump to mix? Does the tank need a ventilation or can you pump in circulation in a closed system? I am thinking about pressure... Thank you for more help!

@Patent5 somehow it feels wrong for me to store any distillate/product in plastic...

Thanks @PeteB and @Silk City Distillers for the explanation. I get it and I think it should work for dilution (distillate/alcohol plus water). But does it work properly for sweet liquors? Have you tried it? Right now I am doing the paddle thing with <100 Liters. And solving the sugar sirup for our sweet liquors is a pain and I always doubt that its solved/mixed properly. I can't imagine doing it for 1000 Liters. And you need a big paddle and a big manhole in the top of the tank. Besides the agitator issue: I also want to weight the tank during blending/mixing/diluting. Have you suggestions for that? Do you guys care much about electrostatic charge as explosion hazard? Thank you for any further help!

@Silk City Distillers thank you for your insights. But I don't understand the way to blend/mix/dilute my spirits and liquors with an EX pump that you recommend. Can you explain it a bit more in detail?

Hey Guys, I am sitting here in Germany looking for a tank that allows me to blend and/or dilute about 500 to 1.000 Litre of product in one go. But honestly it seems very hard to get the right fit. Most of the time I want to use the tank for dilution (e.g. Gin-Distillate from around 85 %ABV to 40-50 %ABV) and blending of sweet spirits (GNS, water, sugar, distillates etc.). 500L capacity is good, 1.000 would be nicer. Maybe something in between. Every recipe depends on weight. ABV dilution is also depending on weight. Hence, I need a scale/weighting solution for the vessel too. An agitator is mandatory. It has to be explosion-proof (EX1). And I want to be able to move the tank in our warehouse (forklift for example). Best case would be if I can use the tank also to store/rest distillates for a few weeks up to several months. The agitator has to be dismantled for storage. In that case I would buy a few tanks and one agitator. Whats charming about this solution is that you have your distillates in the same vessel as your product until you bottle it. No need to pump stuff from a storage vessel to a blending tank and back... I look at the Speidel selection. They have tanks which can be carried by a forklift. But since the platform is PE and not steel there is a problem with electrostatic charge. Officially they do not sell these tanks for inflammable spirits. On the other hand, there are professional distilleries using these exact vessels for moving and storing their fresh distillates... So, after writing all this, maybe some of you have a recommendation for me. What is your blending/diluting setup? Thank you guys!