grehorst

When I started, I exploited what I percieved as a loophole- WI law said a distiller couldn't sell direct but a rectifier could. So, I got a rectifiers and a distillers permit. We sold direct for for the first few months then we got a distributor. Shortly after that I had a conversation with a higher up at the state dept. of revenue. He asked if I was still distributing my own product. I said no, and he said thats probably a good idea since if someone (distributors lobby?) made an issue of it I could be in some trouble. Well, oddly enough a few months ago the state legislature passed a change to the language stating a distillery or rectifier cannot distribute their own product. We've been attempting legislative change for a few years with no progress. The wine and spirits wholesale lobby is extremely powerful here. My new solution- Since I can't taste the product on consumers at the distillery I'll take the distillery to the bars! We're moving the distillery to a neighborhood that is loaded with bars. Visitors will see the distillery then we'll walk across the street to the bars to sample. Michigans recent changes are ideal- hopefully someday WI will have some enlightened legislators who will see the value in promoting the states distilleries. Until then we'll improvise.

Not in this case- our gin label uses a bunch of white ink. You can't print white ink with a laser printer. I guess we could have replaced white with another color but I didn't relish the idea of explaining to the label reviewer that the color I printed, while not white represents white.

With spirits most people will buy what they know (and have been drinking for years unlike wine where a good chunk of the populace will pick it "'cause it's got a pretty label"). So the problem as I see it is not "how do I make my product stand out on the shelf" (cause it likely won't) it really is "my product is good and has a great story, how do I inform consumers about my product?". You can't just make a product and put it on the shelf hoping someone will buy it, you have to convince them to buy it before they get to the store (or bar). First, come up with a great product- if you don't think it's great no one else will either. Then the real work begins- meet people, get them to try it. Ask them to request it at bars and in stores and keep doing this 20 hours a day 8 days a week. Once it starts getting tired and repetitive do it some more. Competing against the big guys is not a part time job- you have to be on all the time.

As Charles Cowdery said look at how small wineries market- if your distillery can become a destination, make it so. We don't have that choice in WI (yet), public tasting at the distillery is not allowed, so our best marketing opportunity comes from tastings at bars. Just make sure that while you're introducing your product to consumers you're also selling to the bartenders. They can make all the difference for you. We frequently invite bartenders to our distillery- they see how and why we do what we do and they'll always associate that experience with the product, someday we hope to be able to do this with consumers too. If you're just starting, remember you probably have more time than money (well ok you don't have much time either but remember you're trying to build a business!) so avoid gimmicks and spend your time with those who should be buying your product.

So far we've had annoyances- not quite horror stories. Of course there's always a first. Our biggest problem stems from the fact that (most of) our labels are printed on clear label stock. The application examiner needs to verify that the contrast of legal text is going to be adequate, and they frequently have trouble judging that from the artwork files. In the case of our Gin they requested a photo of the label on the bottle to prove the contrast was adequate. Of course that meant I had to get the labels printed first! So, knowing that their only concern with that particular label was the contrast and knowing that the contrast was excellent, we bit the bullet and had 10,000 labels printed. Fortunately when they saw a photo of the bottle they were satisfied with the contrast.

Welcome Tom, Having lived in FL I know what you mean (spent summers of my youth in TN too) but don't let the South FL water stop you. You can fix the water- run it through an RO system and then add the desired minerals (consult some brewing manuals). Not as easy as getting what you want out of the ground but very doable.

We've been very fortunate in that a lot of reviewers have really liked our products so far, but I do have a cautionary tale- I will use our experience with our gin- We've entered our gin in "blind" judging competitions with multiple judges and it has done excellent (A double gold Medal at the '08 San Francisco world spirits competition, and just last week a gold medal "90" rating from Beverage Testing Institute). We've also pretty much sent samples to reviewers who simply asked or that we've just come across on our own. Most have given us good or at least fair reviews. However, I have had two experiences that will cause me to pause a bit more before sending samples without careful consideration. 1. An assistant to a writer for an entertainment magazine from a large Midwest city (not our hometown) called and asked for samples- I didn't hesitate and sent them without concern (everyone loves our products so why should I worry! ) Well, the article which was supposed to be on craft spirits from throughout the Midwest pretty much ripped our product (and several others I've had that are really good), after reading the one sentence reviews all I could think was that perhaps he mixed up our product with someone elses!?!? He didn't seem to be aware that our product was even available in his city, and even made a snide comment about how something premium couldn't have come from our town! Interestingly some of the products seemed fairly reviewed and some he gave high marks to products that coincidently are distributed by an advertiser. Not saying that had anything to do with it but it did make us wonder, and of course we won't be sending that particular reviewer any more samples. 2. We recently sent the gin to a reviewer who is highly regarded in the spirits industry (I refer to him as the Robert Parker of the spirits business) and he totally ripped our product apart. He hated it. I then looked at some of his other reviews for the same class of spirits and noticed a pattern, he seems to dislike any gin that is not traditional. Incidentally he loved our vodka and rated it very high. The good news is a couple poor reviews are not going to ruin you, and good reviews do make good marketing tools. If you make a good product, don't fear blind judging competitions. If you're sending to an individual reviewer, you may want to check their previous reviews to get a feel for how they like similar products. But remember, every individual (and reviewer) has their own likes and dislikes, we use Basil in our gin and most people seem to love it, but some don't. We accept that and no longer feel the need to be loved by everyone. Our skin is pretty thick and ultimately our customers opinions are the reviews that really matter, I'm happy to say they seem very pleased. There are some reviewers on this site, hopefully they'll add their thoughts on this topic from their point of view. Good luck!

I think that's a much more workable number.

email message received by Bill Owens... I've gotten the green light to develop a recommended short form for the small distiller. Can you call me this week to provide input. I'm thinking under 10,000 pg's production per year as a top range. Also, I would appreciate input as to how many types of spirits to report. I do want to talk about disposition for non-beverage. If the Distiller wants to sell spirits for other than beverage, they probably will not qualify for a short filing? DAVE BATEMAN DISTILLED SPIRITS INDUSTRY ANALYST 202-302-3859 816-623-9405 FAX 816-623-9405

Public Act 218 of 2008 is now law in the State of Michigan. The new law does the following: 1. Establishes a $100 per license for a "small distiller" 2. Defines a "small distiller" as one who produces 60,000 proof gallons per year. 3. Allows a small distiller to sell by the drink and bottle on premises. 4. Allows sales through ordinary distribution. 5. No restictions on types and sources of raw materials.

Mr. Rekhi We seek a change in the EU definition of WHISKY. The change we seek would separate AMERICAN WHISKEY from SCOTCH WHISKY (note difference in spelling) and establish the two as different TYPES, in the same CLASS. The current definition requiring three (3) years aging for "whisky" may be applied to European products. However, American whiskey does not require three years in oak. It also requires that whiskey be aged in "new charred oak" casks; whereas Scotch whisky is aged in used American bourbon barrels. These are two different types of aged grain spirit. We are addressing this with the US TRADE COMMISSION and our Federal representatives. It is considered to be an embargo against new American whiskey producers and will be challenged. Our goal, in the absence of a redefinition by the EU, will be to prohibit all European whisky from being called "whisky" in the US, equal to the EU ban on young American whiskeys. We are already in touch with media who find it curious as we do, that the EU is redefining traditional American whiskey in an effort to prohibit these legitimate spirits from entering the EU in competition with Scotch whisky. Awaiting your reply, I am Ralph Erenzo Tuthilltown Spirits Gardiner, NY From: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:09 AM To: Ralph Erenzo Cc: Subject: Fw: TUTHILLTOWN SPIRITS VS THE EU Dear Mr. Erenzo, Your email to our group Chairman is referred. Regarding the two issues raised by you in your aforesaid mail, please expand on your thoughts and advise Mr. T. V. Subramanian who in turn will brief me on my return from a business trip on August 7th. With kind regards, V K REKHI .gs cc: Mr. T. V Subramanian To: From: Date: 07/06/2008 08:09AM Subject: TUTHILLTOWN SPIRITS VS THE EU I own a small whiskey distillery in the Hudson Valley of New York, USA. We are the only whiskey makers in New York. Our products are on the best bars in Paris, London, New York, San Francisco and LA. We share your associates ' view on the EU definition of " whiskey " and " whisky " . It is not for the Scotch Whisky Associat ion to define the products of others. The EU requirement for three years aging contradicts the American definition of whiskey; and both American Bourbon and American Rye whiskeys are specifically mentioned in the EU definition . The ruling is only a protectionist move to block competition. I contact you now for two reasons. We are preparing to bring our premium hand made artisan whiskeys to India . And we are engaged with the American Foreign Trade Commission to challenge the EU definition. Perhaps there are matters we have in common to explore. Ralph Erenzo Tuthilltown Spirits Gardiner, NY 12525 www.tuthilltown.com

Thanks Charles, I'll wait and see if they can actually get them to us this time- a couple weeks ago I got a call from fedex telling me they had a couple packages for me but didn't know where to forward it. I gave them our address and they said "well that's what's on the package?" turns out someone at fedex saw an article about us moving and rather than attempting to deliver it to our address they just decided on their own to mark it "moved" despite the fact that we won't be moving for two more months...

Not to bring up any tasteless metaphors but, I don't think it's the size of the still that matters but how you use it . I think use of a potstill and the definitions max gallonage (50,000) is a great category definition in itself.

Finally a resolution!?!? If you can't get help from a local rep call 800-gofedex, work your way through the voice robot and ask for a representative. When you get a representative ask to speak to a "customer advocate"- Ours was out of an office in Kansas City. When you get the customer advocate let them know you're a licensed distillery and what you're trying to do and what fedex has done so far. The good thing is the customer advocate will give you their number and you can keep pestering them until something gets done. The biggest problem we had was getting them to recognize that the piece of paper we got from our state department of revenue was our permit- it had permit number, stated we were an alcohol manufacturer, had the state seal on it but it was not enough- (I think they wanted a pretty hang-on-the-wall certificate). They finally accepted our federal permit as proof. It took me over two months but I finally got "approved" by fedex and now await the special alcohol labels. Good luck!

I like Ralph's definition, but I think the last sentence should be dropped. I think when defining who you are you should not cloud the issue by trying to define who you aren't. I think this says enough... "Craft distillers produce alcoholic beverage spirits by distillation, or by infusion through distillation or redistillation. Maximum production for a "craft" or "artisan" distiller should not exceed 50,000 proof gallons per year. The "craft" or "artisan" distiller utilizes a pot still, with or without rectification columns, for distillation of beverage spirits". thoughts??

I think it's a great idea! I also think it won't be very easy to get done and will likely take years- but now is the time to start. Will it really cost us anything? If we have access to congress/senate members friendly to the idea I doubt we'd need to hire attorneys. Maybe I'm dreaming. I have used the services of my congressman's office in the past and have a contact there- the congressman's very tax payer friendly and has been in office for 30 years so he knows his way around. I'd be happy to initiate a conversation to see if he would have interest in helping/guiding us to get this done. As for quantity, if the definition of craft distiller Ralph came up with is going to be adopted by ADI then we should stick to the amount defining us (I think it was 50,000 gal)- consistency is important whatever the number is. I think the next thing we need to establish is why should we be given a tax credit? Off the top of my head I'd say one of the top reasons is that under the government mandated three tier system, small producers are at a disadvantage as we do not have the money to access markets that the big guys do. Thoughts? Anyone know what the beer producers used as an argument?

I've been trying to set up shipping spirits with Fedex for two months! Looks like I'll have to give up and send via unmarked boxes. In mid May I faxed a copy of our state permit, mid June someone called and said what I sent wasn't a permit. After educating them they told me they'd confirm and contact me again. As of July 1st I hadn't heard from them. Called and spoke to three "Customer Advocacy" reps all of whom told me they would get a hold of our sales rep to call me back. July 9th and I still get no response. I've gotten nowhere with this company and frankly haven't experienced this level of incompetence before. I'd love to play by their rules but they won't even let me in the ballpark.

What sort of occupancy are you applying for? In our new location we applied and received H3 which allows hazardous occupancy. The downside is you may have a number of other accommodations to make- possibly sprinkler, paths of egress, or any number of others that can increase your start up cost significantly. In our new location we have to add a sprinkler system, chop a few exits into block walls and even install fire glass between us and another occupancy. Good luck!

Agree with Ralph- call your congressman right away- it's helped us in the past. Good luck and keep us posted!

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Nick Quint- (Jeff's cousin who runs Yahara Bay Distillery in Madison, WI) responded via email... "I talked to Jeff on Fri. He said they sand bagged and pumped as long as they could but had to give up. The distillery flooded with about five feet of water. I have not been able to make contact since. Nick Quint"

admin is testing board modification please disregard.

Bill Owens writes... "Last year I visited Jeff Quint of Cedar Ridge Winery and Distillery. His distillery was located not far from downtowm Cedar Rapids. Today's NY Times shows the city under water. I phoned Jeff several times and e-mailed to see if he was okay. No response. Anyone know anything about Quint's situation? If, Jeff needs help is there any we as the distilling community can do to help? ".

ADI's hands-on, five day course on How to Distill Whiskey now has a new date: December 1st - 6th 2008. The course will be held at Sweetwater Distillery in Petaluma, CA. Students will actually distill whiskey as part of the learning experience. Cost will be $3000 for five days. For more information, contact Bill Owens: 510-886-7418 or email bill@distilling.com