grehorst

We submitted a label Feb 16th, just got approval March 17th. No corrections.

RE Website

Chuck is correct- gotta make sure your advertising meets requirements and website is an ad. When we opened 5 years ago they sent me a letter saying our website was non-compliant. The issue they had was that we didn't have the statement of alcohol contents for our products on the site. We added them to the individual product pages and they were pleased. Guess we should do this on our facebook as well just to be safe...

Get Your Spirits Ready!

The American Distilling Institute is pleased to announce the 2011 Judging of Craft American

Spirits prior to the annual conference in Portland Oregon. Brandies and Whiskies will be judged

in a blind tasting by a panel of select judges. The purpose of this judging is to help promote the

American craft distillers that are producing the finest quality spirits and to give participating

distillers valuable, unbiased, third-party feedback on the quality of their spirits.

Brandies will be judged in the following categories:

Brandy (aged and unaged) from grapes, apple, cherry, peach, pear, plum, raspberry, and other

Grappa

Fruit Infusions (fruit infusions into a fruit-based spirit)

Whiskies will be judged in the following categories:

Aged Whiskey (Malt, Bourbon, Wheat, Corn, Rye, and other)

Un-aged Whiskey

Packaging Award:

ADI will also award innovative packaging. Bottles will be judges on overall originality,

creativity, graphic design, integration of bottle design to label style, and aesthetic appeal. The

packaging award will be given for both bottle and gift box design. Each spirit submitted for

judging will also be considered for the packaging award. Producers who wish to enter spirits for

which there is no category, may enter bottles for only the packaging award.

ADI reserves the right to either add additional categories or combine categories as necessary to

facilitate judging, based upon the number and type of entries received. ADI will evaluate spirits

made entirely at one DSP in separate categories from those from products that include spirits

distilled at other facilities.

The judging panel will include Hubert Germain-Robin, David Pickerell, Alexandre Gabriel, Julia

Nourney, Flavien Desoblin, Jeanine Koszalka Racht and others.

Gold, silver and bronze medals will be awarded with certificates and bottle-stickers made

available for spirits judged worthy of recognition. All entrants will receive tasting notes with

comments from the spirits judges.

Deadline for sprits registration is March 18, 2011. All spirits must arrive in Portland for judging

by March 25, 2011 to be considered - no exceptions. Judging will be held Sunday-Monday April

2-3, 2011 and medals will be announced Wednesday night, April 6, 2011, at a banquet at the

Benson Hotel, in Portland, OR.

For complete information go to: http://www.distillin...spiritsJudging/

submissionGuidlines.php

For questions that are not answered there, contact ADI' s Judging Director, Andrew Faulkner,

drew@distilling.com, 415-517-7377.

I get a page not found Rob... looks like something isnt working properly

his link had a typo- fixed now.

Typo in second graph of letter -- should be "repeal."

Thanks, fixed it!

Distillers, Distillers-to-be, Industry Supporters.

The Bill on which we have all been working so hard has finally been introduced

to Congress and assigned #777. At this point we ask you all to contact your

local Congressman and Senators requesting their support of this very important

Bill. For your convenience we have prepared a letter that could be used when

reaching out to your representatives. Feel free to use the letter as written,

specific excerpts, or your own wording entirely, but please do circulate this letter

in order to garner as much support as possible to keep the momentum going on

this critical and much-needed legislation.

–The ADI Legislative Committee

_______________________________LETTER__________________________

The United States is in the midst of a resurgence in distilling, a craft that began

with our founding fathers, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and others

whose early 19th Century whiskey production helped revitalize the colonial

economy following the Revolutionary War.

Prohibition drove hundreds of distillers out of business or underground in

the 1920s, and following repeal, only a few smaller operations were able to

reestablish viable businesses in the face of competition from larger U.S. and

international distillers. That situation has changed dramatically in recent years.

Americans have built more than 150 craft distilleries in 40 states, learning the lost

art forms, producing some of the world's finest spirits, and complementing other

regional small businesses.

Many small distillers are now building distribution networks with licensed

wholesalers throughout the nation. One of the biggest impediments to our

ability to grow and succeed is the federal excise tax on distilled spirits, currently

at $13.50 per proof gallon. This regressive tax dates back to the second bill

enacted by the U.S. Congress, which levied taxes on domestic and imported

alcohol beverages. The tax applies to distillers of all size regardless of their

profitability, making it a tremendous challenge for startup companies with limited

capital and high initial costs for equipment, ingredients, and other business

necessities.

To provide some relief to this new class of American entrepreneurs,

Congressman Hinchey of NY State has introduced H.R. #777, a bill that would

reduce the federal distilled spirits excise tax rate to $2.70 per proof gallon for

distillers that produce fewer than 65,000 gallons annually. This discounted

tier structure mirrors what the small beer and wine producers have enjoyed for

decades and how that's helped micro brewers and small wineries to flourish

throughout the country. This tax reduction will enable these small distilleries to

invest in new equipment and provide new, high-quality and sustainable jobs in

communities across the United States.

If you are interested in joining in this effort to provide needed tax relief to these

new American enterprises or if you would like additional background information,

please contact Kristin Cook at Congressman Hinchey's Office.

Kristin.cook@mail.house.gov

Porter,

A reduced rate has been discussed on these forums and amongst members for over two years. It was developed discussed and tweaked according to the desires of the majority of those giving input. I believe this may have been the first post- http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=200 feel free to do some research yourself there are a few more threads as well.

It was modeled after the reduced rates wineries and breweries currently enjoy.

Despite your big producer sales pitch backed by the mega producers conspiracy theory, I can assure you big producers are not likely to support it.

Read the discussions that took place prior, if you're not happy with this and feel it won't benefit you don't support it. I am happy to report that as of last night there are now more than 200 supporters.

Mega distillers spinning off smaller distilleries? do you think that would really be cost effective? Having hundreds of small distilleries to manage wouldn't be very cost efficient. Has this been happening in the craft beer and wine industry where they already get this break??? I don't think so. The big boys already benefit from economy of scale. This is an attempt to level the playing field a bit. The big boys think much bigger when looking to profit- (review the Diageo/ Virgin Islands deal).

Do you really believe being able to reduce your price to your wholesaler by $1.50+ a bottle won't make you more competitive with the large producers? or that being able to reinvest that $1.50 in your business won't help your business grow? For me that probably allows me to hire a few more people year one. In the long run for some here I'm sure that could make a difference in whether they stay in business or not long term.

It's a good plan, it has been well researched and thought out and benefits from the experience of the craft brewers and winery people. If you really think it won't benefit you then don't add your name to the hundred or so supporters already on the list.

The geographic relationship of yeast is very interesting. Our distillery in Milwaukee is less than a mile away (as the yeast flies) from the location of a whiskey distillery that opened in 1882 as Meadow Springs Distillery and later was known as National Distilling. During prohibition they focused on the yeast production business. That company became Red Star Yeast which produced yeast in that same spot until about 5 years ago. Of course we have historically had a ton of breweries here as well. I've never heard anyone give credit to the success of these products because of the local flora but with the roots of one of the worlds largest yeast brands having been established here it makes me wonder...

To get an idea of how much yeast they produced here, Red Star was the city water utility's largest customer. Number two was Miller Brewing. When Red Star closed everyone's water bill went up significantly.

Small Spirits Makers' Equal Tax Act

NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT

Everyone,

We're close to having a bill introduced in the U.S. Congress that the mirrors

the proposal Melkon wrote to create a reduced federal excise tax tier for Micro

Spirits Producers. To refresh everyone's memory, it would lower FET on a 750ml

bottle of 80P spirits from $2.14 to $0.43.

A number of you have already co-signed the proposal -- 107 so far. We need to more...at

least 150 or 200.

Send Melkon anemail today melkon@greenbar.biz

& add your name to the

list of supporters.

I know many of you whose businesses qualify and would benefit directly from this

proposal, or you supply a Micro Spirits Producer and would benefit indirectly from

having healthier clients.

This proposal would create tremendous opportunities for small spirits producers

and it has ADI full support!

- Bill Owens, ADI President

We've used several techniques for separating our solids prior to distillation. So far, the best method is separating after fermentation (therefore no worries for bacteria buildup during separation and I prefer to ferment on the grain anyways). The actual "equipment" (if you want to call it that), are some drums that we've outfitted with some window screen material. However, it doesn't hold up for more than a month or two and we have to replace it as holes/tears come. I was wondering about any recommendations for some sturdier mesh material that we could line our drainers with that will hold up for better duration.

McMaster Carr has a nice variety of perforated stainless. http://www.mcmaster....-sheets/=avydyr

User then admin validation has now been set! This should help greatly, thanks for the input all.

We've seem to become a target recently for spammers. Why the recent increase I'm not sure. We employ Captcha and a bot trap to stop this, however if someone goes to the trouble of manually setting up an account they will get by.

We could close automated signup and require manual approval from an administrator to start an account but many will complain about that as it will take more time to complete.

Spam is a fact of life on the internet, I think most of us are annoyed by it but know how to ignore it. In the mean time, when we spot spam it gets deleted quickly- usually within hours but understand there are two administrators and we do have businesses to run too.

Appreciate your patience as we try to resolve the problem.

FYI- I believe I got an email from TTB yesterday saying they were having issues with colas/formulas online and that there would be downtime this weekend...

I recently sent in my label in for an informal approval. We are producing a Unaged Rye Spirit who is supposed to be listed as a "Spirit Distilled From Grain" for it's SOC. The TTB agent who is reviewing my file is requiring me to make the SOC larger in size and appearance than the Brand or Fanciful name. Have you ever run into this problem and if so, how do we address it? This is not how other labels do it, check our Wasmund's Rye Spirit for an example.

I'd say that makes NO sense at all. Ask to speak to someone else. If you haven't seen it yet, the BAM is here- http://ttb.gov/spirits/bam.shtml

Has there been an update on his recovery?

Follow Jonathan's link at the top of the thread, They update daily..

The State of WI changes are fairly simple yet comprehensive. The Section 125.52 (below) was a basic change- it maintained a prohibition on a manufacturer holding any retail liquor license (a point of contention with wholesalers and the Tavern League) but carved an exception within our own physical space (part 2)- now as a distiller (with no limiting language on what we can produce or where we have to source ingredients) we can sample the products we make within our own onsite facility. It allows us to pour free samples, sell cocktails and bottles.

While I appreciate the idea of encouraging people to use local ingredients, I've never understood the desire to limit producers to only allowing local ingredients through legislation. I guess if it makes the law changes more palatable to politicians it may be what you have to do to get it done, but to do it for any other reason I can think of smacks of protectionism. If someone opens a rectification plant down the street from me and they are buying product in another state who am I to say they shouldn't be able to sample and sell their product? What other industry limits a producer this way???

125.52 Manufacturers' and rectifiers' permits. (1)

AUTHORIZED ACTIVITIES. (a) The department shall issue manufacturers'

and rectifiers' permits which authorize the manufacture or

rectification, respectively, of intoxicating liquor on the premises

covered by the permit. A person holding a manufacturer's or rectifier's

permit may manufacture and bottle wine, pursuant to the

terms of the permit, without procuring a winery permit.

( 1. A manufacturer's or rectifier's permit entitles the permittee

to sell intoxicating liquor to wholesalers holding a permit

under s. 125.54, to wineries holding a permit under s. 125.53, and

to other manufacturers and rectifiers holding a permit under this

section, from the premises described in the permit. Except as provided

in subd. 2., no sales may be made for consumption on the

premises of the permittee.

2. Notwithstanding s. 125.09 (1), a manufacturer's or rectifier's

permit authorizes the retail sale of intoxicating liquor that is

manufactured or rectified on the premises, for consumption on or

off the premises. A manufacturer's or rectifier's permit also

authorizes the provision of taste samples, free of charge and in an

amount not exceeding a total of 1.5 fluid ounces to any one person,

of intoxicating liquor that is manufactured or rectified on the

premises, for consumption on the premises. The department may

prescribe additional regulations for the sale of intoxicating liquor

under this subdivision, if the additional regulations do not conflict

with the requirements applicable to holders of "Class B" licenses.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the authorization

under this subdivision applies with respect to a person who

holds any permit under this section, a winery permit under s.

125.53, and either a "Class A" license or a "Class B" license

issued under s. 125.51 (3) (am), all issued for the same premises

or portions of the same premises.

© Possession of a permit under this section does not authorize

the permittee to sell tax−free intoxicating liquor and wines

brought into this state under s. 139.03 (5).

Looking through some previous posts, I have seen a few regarding POS materials. I am considering using some "shippers" or cardboard floor displays, mainly for cost and customizeability (is that a word?). Was wondering if anyone had any previous experience with these, and if you have worked with anyone you can recommend?

Thanks!

Todd

These can work, we bought some pretty generic white cardboard with 1 color logo on them. They held 24 bottles. 4 years later I still have quite a few- you have to order a minimum quantity. Problems with the cardboard ones are they don't last, they will start looking bad due to store mops hitting them, people scuffing and bumping into them with carts etc..

We did have someone quote us for some full color cardboard displays but they were as expensive as more permanent displays. Not sure if you saw my post in another thread, but we've picked up some nice used permanent displays from a distributor that we were easily able to re-brand for almost nothing.

Message me if you'd like our supplier of cardboard ones and I'll get it to you when I get to the office later. Not sure where you're located (FL if I remember correctly) but shipping even the minimum quantity may necessitate finding someone within a days shipment from you.

I got a letter just last week from their attorney. Seems they don't like the tendrils on our Pumpkin Spirit bottle- orange wax on a product considered a distilled spirit specialty. The trademark specifically states whiskey, why they feel this entitles them to all spirits I don't know. I also don't understand how they could trademark the effects of gravity. If I am required to avoid using the simplest method of wax sealing (letting nature takes it's course and allowing drips) it requires an additional step- I'll have to trim the wax- another operation meaning my costs are higher. In addition, our two products would never be confused. But, they've got 50 lawyers ready to go to war. Unless someone wants to donate to my legal defense fund we'll be changing our packaging. Maybe we'll cut off the tendrils, put them in a bag and tie them around the neck?

Interestingly no damages were awarded in the Makers vs Cuervo suit which I believe means the court felt Makers wasn't harmed.

The irony of the Makers vs Cuervo lawsuit is that Diageo corporate parent of Cuervo is considered to be the top suitor to Makers Mark which Fortune Brands will likely be selling.

Info on the Makers vs Cuervo suit- http://www.law.com/jsp/cc/PubArticleCC.jsp?id=1202447690370

The TTB received the application on Nov. 3, 2010

Approved on Dec. 30, 2010

The case worker found problems with my packet. I had to get my lease changed and I had to have the bond sent back to include the word "Processor" for my bottling operation. The TTB works on your application when they want and ignore it for weeks at a time. I coresponded often in a professional manner. It's important to use the correct terminology right from the beginning (when the architect draws the plans).

Curt

Congrats Curt! Welcome to the tiny club that is WI Distillers!

The ex-banker/author only saw one business plan in 10 years?!?!? No wonder banks are in the mess they are now.

I think the 'Big Plan" approach is more dog and pony show. For the last two businesses I started my banker required a short plan with projections, where my customers will come from, common sense stuff you need to think through etc... That being said, my accountant just asked if I have ever looked at my distillery plan since I created it, of course I haven't. Every year I essentially create a new mini plan that no one else ever sees. I will say of the original plan it was a good exercise and as I wrote I tweaked it a lot and had a completely different vision by the time I was done. It's an important exercise- don't underestimate it's value.

Thanks all. My general impression is that less than 2000 sq ft would be difficult for even a start-up. My gut tells me that barrel and bottle space is generally underestimated. What about necessary additions to a general 'warehouse' space. Adding a boiler for steam, etc.... Are these things that most folks get into trouble with when leasing space? I know there are a multitude of things that come up. What is the space vs location trade-off that inevitably must be figured?

Chris

A gas fired boiler will require a 1 or 2 hr fire rated room. Depending on the space and what you're doing as far as alcohol storage, and how concerned your local building inspector is you might need to have sprinkler system. We started in 3000 sq ft and quickly outgrew it doing only white spirits. We're now in 9500 sq ft, plenty of space at the moment but have tentative plans to add another 3500 for tasting room/office. I think within 3 years we will have to find more storage as our brown spirit production grows.

Good luck!

.../

We must know how to talk to these building inspectors; not many have read the regs from cover to cover, because the documents are so large. Just like dealing with the TTB, many have their own oppinions.

Good Luck,

Curt

Curt, Don't paint with a broad brush. Everyone's situation is different. We had F1 in our original location and by the time we expanded, our (non barrel) storage needs increased beyond what is allowed by F1. What you missed about our situation is we often store amounts of alcohol larger than F1 allows. We also are in a large city where inspectors and planners have experience with what they classify as hazardous. Interpretations may have been different elsewhere.

Guy

I think the gov't while always trying to be exacting kind of messed up on this definition. Tasteless and odorless are hard to quantify, compared to more flavorful spirit of course they will have less taste and less odor, but none?. Every vodka I have ever had has some taste and some odor.

An interesting debate, to be sure. So interesting that [someone] deleted my account here which I have had for years. Thanks for that. That was good of you.

This should not be a point of anger. To discuss the various pros/cons of aging should not cause such an angry response. This forum is for discussions just like this one. Discussions like this help our industry.

Just a side note- not sure what happened to your account, Jonathan Forester and I are the only admins. I didn't delete your account and I doubt he did either. If it was deleted by either of us it would have been an accident. There was certainly nothing in your posts that would have caused us to delete it. Glad to see you back.

Guy