kkbodine

We pump through a pad filter from the tank to the gravity filler reservoir.

Keith

Hello all distillers in control states, three questions.

1. Does your state allow you to sell bottles?

2. Do you have to physically transfer them to the state controlled warehouse before you can sell them at your retail shop?

3. Does your state make you buy them from the warehouse as other retailers (if any) would?

Thanks for your input,

Keith

P.S. Here in Maine we must send cases to the state, buy them (as the retailer), then we can sell them in our retail shop, and we eventually get paid the wholesale price (as the manufacturer). It is a logistical and cash flow nightmare.

Keith Bodine

Sweetgrass Farm Winery & Distillery

Union ME

207-785-3024

keith@sweetgrasswinery.com

Keith,

THEY DID WHAT!?!?!? Where's the TTB's jurisdiction with this??? Did you ask them to review your site or did they send you an unsolicited letter with changes? Can you list the changes the required you to make? Was there a penalty/threat if you didn't comply??

I don't like the slippery slope potential of this at all....

-Scott

They see websites as advertising. Most changes involved alcohol content statements and making text statements conform to standards of identity. So we could not refer to our cranberry flavored gin as "a unique gin infused with cranberries..." nor make comparisons to port. They sent a letter... I do not remember any specific penalties but they can always threaten your basic permit. Some of it seemed potentially heavy handed ... can one quote a review that makes comparisons? It was easier to make the few changes and move on. On Facebook they wanted a statement of alc. % and "Distilled from Grain".

Keith

I know all the big boys do it. How many little guys use an age check on your website. Do any laws require it?

The TTB sent us a detailed letter reviewing every aspect of our website and Facebook page. They had some very specific changes for us to make but never mentioned an age check.

Cheers,

Keith

Have you tried Presque Isle Wine Cellars, piwine.com?

Cheers,

Keith

This is a very common scam. The credit card numbers are stolen and will eventually be disputed by the owner and the charges reversed to you. Meanwhile you will be out the money sent to the "shipping company" via Western Union or whatever service (the scammer can pickup the money at any WU office in any country).

See http://forum.419eater.com/forum/index.php

You can report the numbers via the above mentioned forum and they will get shut down. My credit card processor did not care about the stolen numbers when I reported to them.

Cheers,

Keith

I want to clarify what we do. Mainly, we do tastings with some explanation of the process depending on time etc. We seldom do tours except for specific groups, by arrangement, special events .... These always include a tasting followed by sales. Tastings are how we sell most of our production; tours are rare and thus a small part of sales. I'm usually a busy one person shop so cannot give tours most of the time; but customers can take a look into the production area. I do not believe it would be worthwhile to dedicate labor to regular tours for a small operation; most customers seem happy with a quick look then on to the tasting.

Keith

Hi Scott,

Since we are both a winery and distillery, and in a tourist area, our plan has always been direct sales. We do about 98% direct; 50% tourists 50% local. Yes it takes time and can be difficult but we build brand loyalty directly with the consumer. Having the two product lines reinforces sales of both. In Maine we have to pay an extra $100 to become a retailer and can only retail our own products; we cannot be a full blown agency store. There are no requirements regarding bathrooms (we do not have one) but I'm guessing handicap access is required by the ADA. Maine is a control state so the retail markup is fixed at the same rate as a normal agency store, usually 10-12%. If I were in a more remote location, like you, I would consider opening only certain days like weekends, and see how it goes. Feel free to email/call me directly.

Cheers,

Keith

You pay excise tax when the bottled liquor leaves your bonded space. Otherwise it is 'in progress'. Depending on the volume project, you either file every two weeks and pay excise tax on removed spirits or for really low volume distilleries, I've seen the TTB let them do Quarterly reports and payments.

You also must have enough bond coverage for the possible tax liability at any given time.

Keith

When are you required to pay the excise tax. As soon as you make the sprit or at time of shipping to wholesaler?

On the next tax return that covers when the spirit left the bonded area. We file quarterly.

Cheers,

Keith

Any harm in calling the guy on it? Perhaps asking him what in particular he thought about the tee shirt that made it so "world class?" Maybe ask him whether he got anything from the other people he's solicited. Like Sonja mentioned, I find it curious that somebody of "world class" status in the racing field doesn't register with Mr. Google.

Conversely, he could just be a harmless letter writer with too much time on his hands who's out to see just how many tee shirts he can accumulate just by asking. Maybe he's trying to win a bet...or lost one

I emailed him directly. He played innocent like he just wanted to buy a shirt. But why go to all the trouble of writing a false story? No response to that last question.

On a related topic:

The wine shipping scam works like this. They get you to quote the price and tell you to contact their "shipping agent" who gives you a shipping cost. The fake buyer emails you stolen credit card numbers and asks you to charge them in increments adding up to the total plus shipping. Then they want you to Western Union the shipping payment to the "shipping agent". The WU money can be picked up anywhere in the world at any WU office. They generally don't pick up any product. In a variation of the scam they do want you to Fedex it but supply falsified labels so they do take receipt. Want more info just email me.

Keith

The following is a letter I received today. I found out that another distillery has gotten the exact same letter, twice in the past two years. I thought it strange because I haven't finished construction or made t-shirts.

JIM SKORUPSKI RACING HERNANDO FL & TRAVERSE CITY MI

6395 North Iris Drive

Hemando, FL 34442-2552

352-860-1816

352-347-9100 Fax

Jskorupski@embarqmail. corn

June 4, 2009

Mr. Jonathan Forester

Penobscot Bay Distillery

xxx xxx

Winterport, ME 04496

Dear Mr. Forester:

My name is Jim Skorupski and I am the owner of Jim Skorupski Racing. I am both a drag racer and the owner of a company, but by profession, I am a Quality/Logistics Engineer in charge of an ISO 9000 Program. In my travels both professionally and for my business, I have had the opportunity to view many different companies and disciplines and have found that Penobscot Bay Distillery is truly WORLD CLASS.

The reason for this letter is twofold. First I wanted you to know that you are viewed very positively by an outside source and second I have a question. On a recent flight out of Portland, I noticed a gentleman wearing a shirt that carried the Penobscot Bay Distillery name. Unfortunately he was off the aircraft before I could inquire as to how he obtained it. I would very much like to obtain a LARGE size shirt to do a little "promoting" of my own. Would this be possible? Please let me know. I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Jim Skorupski

Owner Jim Scorupski Racing

Received it today too. Clearly bogus as we don't have any shirts except custom ones we own and we haven't been on any planes lately.

Keith

Any recommendations on labeling machines? I prefer something simple and reliable.

Assuming you mean to apply labels to the bottles; Two questions: round bottles? Pressure sensitive labels?

We use the labeler from St. Pat's, stpats.com look under bottling section

Cheers,

Keith

Well that's my question. Is it helpful to add finings to assist in settling the solids, particularly in molasses washes? Hobby distillers are all about settling their washes before distilling. A small craft distiller is just a big hobby distiller with a license, and in a lot of cases, like mine, the hobbyists have many many more years of experience. If clarification is not necessary pre-distillation, why are the hobbyists clarifying?

Do any craft distillers clear their wash before distilling; why/why not?

Hobbyists do all sorts of things that have no basis is commercial production, which is our reality. For example, making wine with lots of added water. Bentonite would help settle solids but are the solids hurting anything? Does one want to wait for bentonite to do its job considering the time involved and the increased spoilage possibilities? In winemaking (a well preserved environment), we typically wait one to two weeks to allow sufficient settling. Even then, bentonite does not always settle well. You could try it on a small batch and see. My prediction is that it will be detrimental or have no effect on the final flavor of a molasses based rum. Thus a waste of time and materials. Also, note that you will loose up to 10% to lees when you rack off the clarified wash.

Cheers,

Keith

If you have not done so already, go to the TTB website and download a copy of the Beverage Alcohol Manual (volume 2 Spirits), http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/bam.shtml. It has a lot of great information regarding labeling, additives, standards of identity et al that you will want to know.

Also, check out:

http://www.ttb.gov/industry_circulars/arch...val_spirits.pdf

Cheers,

Keith

Does anyone know if there are any FDA requirements on spirits other than allergen additives? We saw nothing about the FDA while obtaining our Federal permit.

Dick & Marti

Florida Farm Distillers

You will need to register your plant with the FDA if you have not done so already. I seem to remember doing it online. Otherwise, like Ralph stated, the TTB is the controlling body most of the time unless you are adding something not already recognized.

Cheers,

Keith

I did it a while ago - the cost of electric was crazily more when talking about either a number of 100L stills or a 300L. Gas is much, much cheaper - and as long as you have a fire retardant system? No problemo(ish).

If I can find the excel page I'll bring the info here. But, here in Washington, where we have hydro vs. natural gas - and our hydro is rather cheap, the gas was much cheaper.

That said, the control of gas is nowhere near the temperature control that electric offers.

Another issue is buildout: If one has to build in gas, that can be a lot more expensive than electric, for obvious reasons.

I have to disagree with the last two points. Gas is very easy to control with a simple valve. In both cases if you use licensed installers the cost is probably less to install gas (LP in my case). For gas you are paying almost nothing for the piping but do have labor. For the heavy electric you need a large incoming service, heavy wiring, heavy switching/control, and the labor.

Keith

This is probably a dumb questions but I am going a little numb reading about all this stuff. From what I gather this is what I have found on where you can place a distillery off the TBB page:

[i]Sec. 19.131

Restrictions as to locations

Distilled spirits plants shall not be located in any dwelling house, or in any shed, yard, or enclosure connected with any dwelling house, or on board any vessel or boat, or on premises where beer or wine is produced, or liquors of any description are retailed, or (except as provided in Sec. 19.133) on premises where any other business is conducted.

(Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1353, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5178))

This was last updated on September 17, 1999[/i]

Is that is? Does this mean you can build a structure on your property to do this (I live rural on several acres in WA)? What are most people doing? I assume leasing space somehwere. I understand it varies on size of production but the way this reads it is fairly vague.

It also seems to help if the building has its own address. We used a barn just down the road, maybe 200 feet max, from our other structures (house, barn, garage). Our town required us to go through a change of use process to go from farm to retail (apparently in their view retail is more of a change than winery/DSP but I digress). This also meant a new address for the barn thereby making it a seperate place.

Cheers,

Keith

We have a 400L Hoga still and have been very happy with it. Armindo is easy to deal with but is not a consultant on what to make or how to make it. Email me if you need more specific info.

Cheers,

Keith

Actually sounds like I may be missing something. How do you get a barcode from them without becoming a member (to the tune of $750 + annual fee)? Do they have an order page? Links please!

I could not find it either.

Keith

My weaknessess include zero hands on experience and lack of appreciation of chemistry. On that note, I'm willing to work for a week or 2 for payment of some knowledge at any distilleries in the midwest, or elsewhere in the world.

Gaining some practical experience will do you a world of good. I'm surprised on a daily basis how people neglect this at an early stage (or any stage) and just jump in. Though jumping in is fine if you can afford it. Or you can always buy the expertise, mine included

Cheers,

Keith

There are several small distilleries making Tequila style spirits. Dogfish Head in Delaware is or was one of them. I don

t know if they still are making it. I think they called it Ta-kee-la for COLA purposes.

I don't see an approved COLA for anything but vodka from Dogfish. Perhaps it did not fly with the TTB?

Keith

Has anyone had any bad reactions using bronze in any part of their process? Specifically, I am speaking of short connections or transfer lines.

For example, a liquid volume gauge from McMaster Carr comes with bronze connections or 316 stainless connections. The bronze gauge costs $202 while the stainless gauge costs $509. Can bronze be used in this instance to save $300?

I find it amazing that there are no real alternatives to copper or stainless for high proof storage and especially for transfer. What has anyone done when they need a flexible connection from one place to another? Are flexible connections just not an option because both stainless and copper are rigid?

-Scott

Scott are you referring to hoses for transfers?

Keith

Yes we have redemption on spirits, wine, beer, soda, juice,... As a producer/retailer we collect the 0.15 which gets sent to the state via monthly returns. The return amount is offset by any redemptions. Redemption centers collect empties and get 0.18 from us if we pick them up. Yes we get to pick them up too or hire a company to do it (I think they get around 0.25). Oh what a wonderful "system"

Cheers,

Keith

In Maine we have two levels:

Brewer's DSP $50 (I think)

Regular DSP $1000 plus $100 to be a retailer.

I did not also want to be a brewery (besides a winery and DSP) so we get to pay the $1100.

Keith