CountySeat

Has anyone tried using apple cider? There is a farm near me that sells bulk apple cider but it is still fairly costly, about 3.80 a gallon. Rough math suggests that would be a per unit (750ML Brandy at 90 proof) cost of over $6 which seems way to costly.

Yup - perfect for a distillery!

Who did you end up going with? Approximate cost?

Can anyone provide what their ballpark insurance costs are? We haven't finalized a building yet so I can't get a quote. At this point, I am just trying to get a rough sense of the costs for insurance. Assume:

Standard bottle to glass activities

4000-5000SqFt.

Tasting Room

Thanks for the comments. I have reached out to several companies and we are looking at a few options. Two issues:

1. If a still is steam jacketed, how essential is also having an agitator? Does it improve the flavor? Is there still a risk of scorching a heavy grain mash (with rye) even with a steam jacketed? Does having an agitator make cuts easier? Does having an agitator speed up the heating process (i.e. you can heat up faster without risking scorching by agitating)?

2. Can a good agitator obviate the need for a steak jacket? In other words, would a large still heated by elements in the mash still work well for on the grain distilling if a good agitator is used? Or will there still be scorching and off flavors?

Thanks!

And Alt Whiskeys by Darek Bell.

I really liked How to Make Whiskey by Bryan Davis of Lost Spirits Distillery.

Washing machine could work in theory. You might be better off getting some filter bags/false bottom and separating that way. Maybe shoot an email to Kings County in Brooklyn, NY. They've gotten by for awhile stilling off the grain by separating the liquid with cheesecloth after fermentation. I don't think they grind to flour though, I think they just boil the cracked corn and add malt. For the first few years (I think they have large Forsyth stills now) they use stills with elements and no agitator.

Are you doing a full 250G batch each time or smaller batches that total 250G per week?

OK - thanks. I agree, we will likely have bottling in the bonded premises. I have a couple of followup questions on bonding and removing from the bonded premises:

1. What is the approximate cost of a bond? Is it paid on a yearly basis up front? Can anyone recommend a bonding company?

2. To remove spirits from the bond, is there any time lag? In other words, if we taste a few barrels today, determine that they are ready and bottle and label them is there any time lag from when we can sell? Can we simply move them out of the bonded premises and sell them (and then report the taxes for everything we moved out of the bonded premises)? Or do we have to seek permission to move out of the bonded premises, pay the tax, and then get approval to move the product out for sale.

Thanks!

We are working on profit/loss projections and wanted to make sure we understand exactly when the federal excise taxes are due.

Example:

We finish a spirit run, proof it down to 125 and fill a 53 gallon barrel. The excise tax on that 53 gallon barrel will be approximately $894.38. If we plan to aged the spirit for four years, when do we pay the tax.

My understanding is that we don't have to pay the tax on that barrel until we remove the spirit from the bonded premises which would leave two possibilities:

1. We bottle within the bonded premises and don't have to pay the tax until the spirit (now labeled and in bottles) is removed from the bonded premises (i.e. to be sold).

OR

2. We bottle outside the bonded premises in which case the tax must be paid when the aged spirit is removed from the bonded premises (i.e. to be bottled).

Is this accurate? We want to be sure because it will affect how we plan to age the spirit.

Thanks.

10-20K. I saw that iStill was around 10K for a 260 gallon.

Possibly. I'm not married to steam jacketed but it seems to be the best way to heat a heavy grain mash for distilling. I'm open if you are aware of companies that sell steam-coiled stripping stills.

Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive steam jacketed stripping still? Looking for the range of 250 gallons. I am looking for an option where I can strip on the grain and then (possibly) use a smaller pot still for the spirit run (possibly also steam or possibly element heated). I know Edin (iStill) makes one but wasn't sure if there are others.

Thanks.

Who did you end up using for your bond?

I am close to applying for a DSP and wanted to make sure I understand the basic timeline. As I understand it, I need 1) bonding, 2) Federal DSP, and 3) State and local approvals.

Bonding:

How much time will it take to get bonded? Any suggestions for where to obtain the bond?

DSP:

How much time will it take to get the DSP?

Thanks.

Can you provide a source for such elements? I've been using a camco ripple element which is better in terms of surface area but still not ideal.

Yes. I've had that issue with distilling rye on the grain. I agitate until I get to about 155 and then close the still up and lower the amps on the elements a bit. About the first half of the run works fine (no burning) but with rye (haven't had the same problems with other grains) the rye eventually starts to stick to the element and eventually burn.

What are you using to filter? Are your grains ground to flour?

Presumably Old Republic Distillery near York, PA.

Thanks for the reply. That is my assumption. It is odd to me that swtiching from 33% wheat to 33% rye would make that much of a difference but I guess it does. I will try to distill off the grain next time but I'm not sure I am set up to do that yet. My mill can only grind to flour, not any courser than that so I'm not sure I will be able to seperate with filter bags or screens too effectivley but will try. My preference has always been to distill on the grain but I may not be able to do that right now. At this point, I'm trying to get R&D barrels filled and if I have to do a barrel with the rye mash off the grain, I'm OK with that.

Any other thoughts? Thin out the mash more with water or tails?

I use a 26 Gallon Hillybilly Still pot still set up. It generally works great but now that I am trying rye, I am frequently burning the mash. I have always fermented and distilled on the grain and did not have any problems with similar mashes burning but not that I use rye, it burns just about every time.

For instances, a grain bill of 51% corn, 33% wheat and 16% malted barley was not burning but 51% corn, 33% rye and 16% malted barley is consistently burning. I switched to a blue corn as well but I suspect the culprit is the rye.

Has anyone else had success with using a still with an element and distilling rye mashes on the grain? Any tips? I've tried bringing the temperature up very slow and agitating before I close the unit up which works but about half way through the stripping run, the mash eventually catches the element and starts to burn.

Other than distilling off the grain is there anything I can do in terms of mashing or fermenting which would help? I get pretty good conversion at about 8% and all my grains and flour ground.

I'm planning to buy a new R&D still with steam but they are pretty expensive and it may be some time before I can get one. I'm hoping to finish my R&D with my current hillybilly still set up.

Thanks!

Send me a PM.

I'm looking for a small R&D still that is steam jacketed. I have a still with an element set now but it has problems with thick mash and particularly rye. I can't realistically run on good tests with rye mashes on the element without slightly burning the mash.

I work indoors so I don't want to use open flames. Does anyone know where I can buy a small steam jacket still for test runs or does something like that not exist?

Teton, what specific stills did you buy from?