Silk City Distillers

Backset really does make a significant difference, even at small volumes.  We use less than 5% of the total wash volume as backset (20 gallons in 530 total), and that has a material impact on buffering and the amount of citric we will need to use to drop pH.  Probably something on the order of 20-25% of the total citric we use in a non-backset batch.  And this is only because I'm somewhat anal about pH ranges during the mash - so I'll typically be using citric to step adjust pH anyhow - just use significantly less of it.

We also top off with chilled water prior to cooling (just as a way to reduce the cooling load/time) - and this is where you see the buffer impact.  Typically we would need to readjust pH after the final cold water addition.  With backset added, we never do.

We basically fill a small drum with boiling backset as soon as we finish off tails.  The heat helps to keep the backset somewhat sterile until the next run.  If your drum was clean and sanitized, you could probably hold the backset for a week or two, especially if you are dumping it into a cereal mash and re-boiling for an extended period of time (any new bacterial load would be killed).

Just don't put 20 gallons of boiling backset in a 55 gallon drum and seal it airtight during the middle of winter.

And this is exactly the reason that Jim Beam is paying Mila Kunis millions of dollars a year.

Let me know when I'll be able to find a Vendome for the scrap value of the copper.

I found a local gasket supplier that sells stock gasket material, he sold me a 24x48 sheet of FDA platinum cured silicone sheet.  I was able to just drop the flange on, trace it out, and cut it with an Xacto knife.  If you are interested in cutting your own gasket, I'll track down his contact info.  It was not particularly cheap though.

Yes

What's the fitting?  For high proof I prefer teflon/ptfe seals on a stainless valve body.

Nylon wouldn't be my first choice.

Take a gander at this:

http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/business/2017/01/23/paterson-passaic-may-have-craft-distilleries-per-bill/96958706/

Wonder what the TTB would have to say.

I have an uncle who keeps a loaded shotgun in his office.  Double barrel thief?

The PID I mentioned above Omega CNI16D53 - has both Proportional (0-10v and 4-20ma) Outputs and Relay Outputs w/ Cycle time (Basic PWM - in seconds)  - The "5" in the model number stands for proportional output, and the "3" stands for relay.

If you are going to use solenoids, make sure you use relays between the controller and the solenoids to provide additional level of safety for the controller.

If you do have only proportional analog output, but want to use solenoids, as mentioned in the Stilldragon thread posted above, the Burkert 8605 and 8611 controls are a nice way of converting a 4-20ma proportional signal from a controller into a solenoid-friendly PWM.  They also provide much more flexibility in solenoid control than you will find in a straight PID.  

Burkert makes proportional solenoid units that are comfortable with faster duty cycles, with the integral controllers, but they are just as expensive as actuated proportional valves.

If you are using municipal water with solenoids, and have a high water pressure, make sure you account for water hammer, as it can be severe depending on your solenoids, flowrate, duty cycle, and plumbing.  For safety sake, use normally open solenoids on your condenser loops, so that when your control system fails, loses power, solenoid burns out, relay burns out, etc - your condensers will go to full flow and shut down the still.  This will require manual shutoff valves.  Same goes for proportional valves, just be sure you understand and consider what the behavior is when the system fails, and someone else is operating the still.

13 minutes ago, Natrat said:

If you really are at "near flour," get one of those huge (almost joke size) ss whisks at a discount restaurant supply store. 

Works way better than flailing at mounds of floating flour with a canoe paddle :-)

I'm glad I'm not the only one flailing with the canoe paddle.

I think the suggestion by @Brian could be a good approach.  Could it be easier to just work with a local vendor to replace the whole gas train and burner assembly with something that's certified under the local authority, with a local (at least Canadian) representative?  They'll probably be able to provide the appropriate exhaust requirements to pair with their burner as well.  You'll have lots of paperwork from the regulator, burner, etc etc.  Take the angle that the still itself is no different from any other pot on a regulated burner (just a bit more odd, you know, like a big wok or kettle corn popcorn).  Not sure if propane was your first choice, but if you have natural gas, it's at least the opportunity to switch them out.

If you can build something like this, eBay and industrial surplus are your friends.  For example, the PID I list, you can find on eBay for $100.  From Omega directly?  It's like $350-400.  At $100 it's a better deal than a standard off-the-shelf PID for $50.  Same goes for valves, decent proportional control models are relatively easy to find on the surplus market.  Sure, theres some risk involved, but like I said, this endeavor requires a certain amount of technical and mechanical skill, if you have those, you should be pretty comfortable spec'ing the right parts, sizing valves, pumps, plumbing, etc.  Do solenoids work too?  Yeah, totally, plenty of ways to skin this cat.  On a municipal or well water based system, solenoids are really the only way to go.

@indyspirits mentioned software, so I thought I'd share the details around the Omega, since it's a pretty cost effective way to put a PID in place that has the ability to be connected.  Omega has some very good documentation online for how to interface over Ethernet, and there are plenty of options in place if you are interested in hacking around.  You can data log to Excel, build simple VB programs with their ActiveX control.  They've got some dashboard software too.

http://www.newportinc.com/software/iseries.htm

http://www.newportus.com/PDFspecs/Dashboard.pdf

Omega CNI16D53-EI Proportional control PID (With Ethernet for remote control/logging), RTD in the dephlegmator itself (through the wall).  Using a Johnson 4-20ma proportional actuator with a 3 way ball valve to provide dephlegmator flow control.  We use a reservoir, and the dephlegmator is on it's own loop, so the water either passes through the deplegmator or bypasses back to the tank (easier than dealing with pump control or pressure bypass).  We are using a Grundfos Alpha circulator valve - it uses a ridiculously small amount of power, about 5 or 6 watts.  The dephleg loop only runs about 4-5 gallons a minute.

Nice thing is the PID compensates for the reservoir temperature as it heats up through the run.  We can adjust the dephleg to any temp we need on demand, and I think that the run-to-run repeatability is solid.  Makes it very easy to do things like run heads compression, slowly back off to take off fores/heads, adjust the hearts proof, and then compress tails  if necessary.  The only upgrade pending is to swap to a much faster acting proportional valve.

Went with PID as it was easier to control on the fly than something like a PLC - especially considering the cost of an HMI.  To go through all that trouble and the PLC would really just be "simulating" a PID?  We use the same exact setup for product condenser temp control.

No but we used NSF sinks to be sure that they wouldn't have an issue.

2 pound of grain per gallon total volume is a reasonable estimate.

1 hour ago, Ross Topliff said:

Did the official provide a rationale for this sink? Was this in your tasting room or where those utensils are washed?

In the distillery proper.  Local municipal code has a number of health department mandated sanitary codes that apply to any food handling establishment, including manufacturing.  There were a number of other requirements I didn't list.  Separate handwash sink (in the manufacturing area) and a mop sink as well.

The 3 basin would have been a real problem, as it's required to be air gapped into a floor sink - but we were already tearing up the concrete to lay down trench drains anyhow.

Really thought, would be hard to imagine how to operate without them.  FDA would certainly have something to say if they walked into a facility without these things.  I thought the grease trap was excessive, not the sink, god knows I spend half the day cleaning.

We see a significant cost differential between local unmalted rye and buying malted rye from a supplier, unmalted is near 3x less expensive per bushel.

If you are adding it to the cereal mash - I don't think it makes sense to use malted, given the higher price.  Also, I don't see how you gain any productivity benefit if you are using any other malt (wheat, barley) on the way down.

Also worth noting, if you aren't using enzymes, adding rye to corn on the way up makes it even more difficult to work with.

A 500 gallon still for a gin distillery running gns?  Maybe 2?

I'm not sure that's small batch, that's cornering the entire North American gin market.

3 Basin Sink with Grease Trap.  We got them to concede on the grease trap, but we still installed the 3 basin sink.

Not sure how you would do this mechanically, as something like a Danfoss AVTA would open the supply, but then you would flood your glycol system with water.

We have a surface mount RTD temp sensor on our parrot to measure distillate temp, connected to a Watlow limit controller.  The limit controller just screams and blinks today, but originally we were going to wire it into our steam control to cut steam to the boiler.  You could use it to switch two solenoids to switch the PC to muni water feed, and then drain down to your flood drains, etc.  We figured it was easiest to just shut down the still on a distillate high-temp (vapor) situation.

Local authorities are going to have more to say than us, but..

When talking to my electrical contractor about classified environments and being "explosion proof" - he made a point to me that made so much sense, I was embarassed to not have thought of it.  Easiest way to manage electrical classification in an area?  Remove all the electric, deal with only essentials, not optionals.  A window or skylight is cheaper than approved lighting.  Pneumatics will be cheaper than electrics.

The floor drain might represent a problem, since if you have major spillage, it may feed into the sanitary sewer.  It might be a liability and not a benefit.

The little RODI has a separate set of carbon block filters, but we've got a 2 cubic foot carbon tank with a hot swap spare.

Your prices are really good, btw.

Yeah our local water commission stores finished water in open air reservoirs, so its ozonated and chlorinated/chloraminated a second time on exit.  As a result, the level will swing throughout the year, and swing based on if they are drawing from a reservoir and which one.  Problem is, you really never know.