ammocrypta Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hello all. Vast amount of info. here, enjoying it all. I am wondering about your start up size. Did you underestimate needed square footage? Is there a necessary size you need to incorporate all of your equipment, barrel storage, bottle storage, etc.? Would a 1600 sq. ft. facility be enough space or would it be too cramped? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwydion Stone Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 It depends on what you're doing. If you'll be making whiskey, you're going to need a lot of space for barrels to sit around for a few years. Gin? Not so much. My new space is still being built out, but it's 1000sf footprint with a 500sf mezzanine. I've used 3D imaging to configure my space usage and make sure I'll have enough room to do what I want. You might take some time to go around and visit other distilleries to get a feel for what's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartland distillers Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 As already stated, it's best to map out the space ahead of time so you will know exactly where you want to put everything. We forklift a lot of things at the distillery, so we need to make sure we can turn the lift around and have space to load and off load pallets. Also consider how you are going to be ordering your bottles, raw materials, etc. and where you are going to put it. A container of bottles take up a lot of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Forester Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 As the others said, it depends on what you are making. What size still/s? How many and what size fermenters? Mashing tank? Bottling line? Storage for empty glass, and full glass? Barrels, both empty, and full? Equipment storage area for forklift, pallet jack, pumps, hoses, etc.? Grain and botanicals storage? NGS storage? Also, will you have a tasting room and retail store? Office space? Restrooms for public, restrooms for staff? What about a break room / kitchen for staff? How large an operation? How many staff? How much production? Figure out all that, then get some graph paper and lay it out. Then see how much space you need. Personally I think that 1,600 sf is a bit cramped, and that's just for the distillery. I think that 2,000-2,500sf is more realistic for a very small 1-3 man operation. My new distillery will be much larger than my original one, which was very small and cramped to the point of useless. Looking at the price in building a new facility from the ground up, the price to go bigger didn't increase much, comparatively. I'll have apx. 5000sf on ground level, most of that the distillery and storage, but with a very large tasting room, restrooms, and dining area using around 750-1,000sf. Then apx. 1.500sf on a second level for offices, extra storage, etc. All in a Dutch Gambrel style barn structure that will fit in nicely in the middle of the 440 acre farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott @ Twenty2Vodka Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Our total space is about 4,800 sq ft. About 3,800 sq ft is our bonded distillery, and the rest is our offices/conference room/bathroom. As far as I'm concerned, we're running low on space, and I could easily consume another 5000 sq ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammocrypta Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 Thanks all. My general impression is that less than 2000 sq ft would be difficult for even a start-up. My gut tells me that barrel and bottle space is generally underestimated. What about necessary additions to a general 'warehouse' space. Adding a boiler for steam, etc.... Are these things that most folks get into trouble with when leasing space? I know there are a multitude of things that come up. What is the space vs location trade-off that inevitably must be figured? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grehorst Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Thanks all. My general impression is that less than 2000 sq ft would be difficult for even a start-up. My gut tells me that barrel and bottle space is generally underestimated. What about necessary additions to a general 'warehouse' space. Adding a boiler for steam, etc.... Are these things that most folks get into trouble with when leasing space? I know there are a multitude of things that come up. What is the space vs location trade-off that inevitably must be figured? Chris A gas fired boiler will require a 1 or 2 hr fire rated room. Depending on the space and what you're doing as far as alcohol storage, and how concerned your local building inspector is you might need to have sprinkler system. We started in 3000 sq ft and quickly outgrew it doing only white spirits. We're now in 9500 sq ft, plenty of space at the moment but have tentative plans to add another 3500 for tasting room/office. I think within 3 years we will have to find more storage as our brown spirit production grows. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 I can't comment with authority on this since I don't have a legit dsp licensed and running yet, but I'll offer up opinion and my own intentions based on what I've encountered -- In my early consideration/planning stages I visited and spoke to a bunch of craft distilleries of various sizes around the state. I found quite a few that operated on a fairly small foot print. Some of the more compact operations... Montanya, Mancos Valley and from what I understand, 303 vodka initially started with a small space before expanding (I'd guess that they are around 2.5k right now). I'm planning on starting really small - 902f2 with an additional 400f2 of usable loft space. There is a ton of adjacent space In the building my space is in that I can expand into if things lead that way after the first year. For a shoestring operation I feel like staying small and nimble is going to be key (for me). Additionally, the options in my town are rather limited. If you are trying to keep costs down and the 1,600 square foot facility could be expanded upon, I'd expect that you should be able to get up and running in it just fine, and grow out as need be. Sucks to pay for space that you don't necessarily need to use right from the get go, but if you've got the funding to go bigger and there are indeed other options in your area then bigger might save you some hardship down the road. But then again... what do i know? I'm just plodding along with confidence that my vision will prove to be legit - we'll see soon enough. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 We have been in a 1400sqft space for a year now and our production started last summer. We have 6 products and will add 3 more soon, some clear, some aged. I am happy with my space but have been hinting to the tenant next door that I want his space to double mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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