Rye fermentation and anti-foam vs oil

[HottyToddy77]

Our Rye Fermentations like to foam over the top of our fermentation tanks the first night. Our solution has been to lower the initial water volume and keep the fermentation cooler at the start then raise the temperature and let it finish up. I have seen mention of using products from 5 star and Magrabar. However, I have also seen people mention using oil such as olive, wheat or Corn Oil to keep the foam at bay.

So my questions are:

1. how much oil should be used?

2. flavor impacts of oil vs commercial anti-foam?

3. clean up of oil vs commercial anti-foam? 

4. other considerations... cost $$?

Not sure if it matter but we use a continuous column still.   

[indyspirits]

I've used patcote 376 in my homebrewing efforts which helps but doesn't eliminate foaming with high protein mash bills. 

[TheDriftlessDistiller]

I've used Patco and Olive Oil. Neither really helped with overflow during the fermentation, but they both helped prevent foaming in the distillation. I prefer olive oil as it's cheaper and a little goes a long way. (I also use it as a machine oil for manhole fasteners). 

For fermentation, I dropped temp to about 88F compared to the 94F I usually start the 600 gal. fermentation at in our open top fermenters. The ferment reaches the very top of the fermenter and settles back down. I did distill at a distillery where the vessel didn't have adequate headroom so it always turned into a school science project and spewed over the sides.

[SlickFloss]

On 11/5/2018 at 7:50 AM, HottyToddy77 said:

Our Rye Fermentations like to foam over the top of our fermentation tanks the first night. Our solution has been to lower the initial water volume and keep the fermentation cooler at the start then raise the temperature and let it finish up. I have seen mention of using products from 5 star and Magrabar. However, I have also seen people mention using oil such as olive, wheat or Corn Oil to keep the foam at bay.

So my questions are:

1. how much oil should be used?

2. flavor impacts of oil vs commercial anti-foam?

3. clean up of oil vs commercial anti-foam? 

4. other considerations... cost $$?

Not sure if it matter but we use a continuous column still.   

Ryes a fickle bitch bro we cook a mother fuck ton of it. Are you sour mashing at all or all sweet mash? Any enzymes used (Alpha, Gluco, Viscosity, Protease...) If not using enzymes are you using rests to your advantage for these activations? Using oil is not realistically a viable solution IME..... also it sounds like you're running a HF is that the case? If so I think I know where you got your info. In fermenter oil may marginally help but really not enough to justify use, but it will do nothing for continuous distillation as you will likely see foaming inside of column. Also, from a technical standpoint, how does using corn oil affect your spirit designation with TTB? Commercial antifoam is used by most all of the big boys because it consistently works with little to no caveats or "...if I's.....". No flavor difference to my knowledge and experience.

Your solution to the foaming is one I cannot get behind from a commercial manufacturing basis. Low beer gallonage on ryes is a poor decision from a flavor standpoint specifically in continuous column distillation operations because it has less than optimal "favorable" phenolic development. I will tongue in cheek respond to your questions because obviously I wouldn't recommend it.

1. None

2 Neglible for AF, probable for "Corn Oil"

3 Antifoam is minimal addition to mash and requires little clean up Corn oil will leave residues

4 Corn oil will leave residues that need to be cleaned from your tanks or they can provide ammunition for bacterial metabolism