100% Flaked Grain Mash

[jsipaila]

I was wondering if anyone had some experience with distilling and mashing with 100% flaked grains. I'm trying to use a 100% flaked bill for ease of use but keep running into a thick pourage that I can't seem to process. Below is the procedure and ratios I'm using but getting stuck and hoping someone might be able to provide some insight...

I'm mashing for Distilling.

30 pounds of grain – 100% flaked wheat
.375 gallons water per pound of grain (1.5 qt / pound)
Bring water to 142 and pH correct to 5.0 with citric acid
Mix in BioGlucanase GP – about 4ml worth
Mix in Grain
Check temp, should be 135-142 and held in that range
Hydrate grain for 35min stir every 5-10 min; stir constant if having to bring temp up at all - done once (used direct steam injection for heating up)
Bring temperature up to 150
Stir in Amoly 300 - 22ml
Maintain temp at 145-155; stir constant if having to bring temp up at all
Stir every 15 min and cook for 90min

So in this test run when I was bringing up the temp for the Amoly I was stirring constantly and it really starting taking a turn for thick pourage at this point

I'd prefer to stick with a 100% flaked grain bill if possible..

[indyspirits]

Well.... the good part w/ flaked grains is that the mash has already been done for you (there is a difference between steam rolled and flaked grains, the former is usually for animal feed) so they're easy to use. The bad part is that they're very expensive compared their whole-grain counterpart.  For grains that gel in the beer-brewing temp range, I really don't think there is any advantage to flakes over grain but Im more than willing to be proven wrong.

 

 

[Silk City Distillers]

You got your enzyme protocol all messed up.  I’d type up a suggestion but too painful to do on a phone.

 

[indyspirits]

Out of curiosity, have you ever had a 100% wheat spirit? 

[Silk City Distillers]

First - your enzymes are a bit mixed up, second your temps are mixed up.  Your yield on this is probably very poor.

Bioglucanase GP is a Beta-Glucanase Enzyme - this is to break down the sticky glucans common in Rye and Wheat (not very common in Barley and Corn).  You'll want to use your Bioglucanase FIRST, at about 110-120F.

Amylo 300 is a Glucoamylase.  You'll want to use this THIRD, add it during cool down, no higher than 130F.

You appear to be using no High Temperature Alpha Amylase.  You look like you are using enzymes from BSG or similar - so you'll want to ask for Hitempase.  This is what you want to use SECOND, on the heat up.  Add it cool, it works it's magic as you heat.  If you stay below around 200, it will not denature quickly.

Keep your pH around 5.2 through the process.  If you add additional water, grain, etc - you need to recheck.  The purpose here is not to allow your enzymes to accidentally denature if add them and your pH is way off.

If you add Amylo 300 to 150F mash, it will probably denature in about 15 minutes.  Same thing with the Bioglucanase, too hot at 140, will denature in minutes.

Summary:

Bioglucanase, 110-125F (at the start of mash) - This will denature during the heat up.

High Temp Alpha Amylase - Add it anytime during the heat up, after the beta glucanase.  If you do get up to a boil, you can add a second dose of HTAA during the cool down, usually 180F is a safe temp, this way you ensure your enzyme stays active in full dosage.

Amylo 300 - BELOW 130F - You do not want this to denature, especially if you are fermenting on the grain - as this will provide additional conversion during the fermentation process.

In all cases, if you stick around 5.1-5.2 you should be fine.

[Georgeous]

On 10/16/2017 at 6:41 AM, Silk City Distillers said:

First - your enzymes are a bit mixed up, second your temps are mixed up.  Your yield on this is probably very poor.

Bioglucanase GP is a Beta-Glucanase Enzyme - this is to break down the sticky glucans common in Rye and Wheat (not very common in Barley and Corn).  You'll want to use your Bioglucanase FIRST, at about 110-120F.

Amylo 300 is a Glucoamylase.  You'll want to use this THIRD, add it during cool down, no higher than 130F.

You appear to be using no High Temperature Alpha Amylase.  You look like you are using enzymes from BSG or similar - so you'll want to ask for Hitempase.  This is what you want to use SECOND, on the heat up.  Add it cool, it works it's magic as you heat.  If you stay below around 200, it will not denature quickly.

Keep your pH around 5.2 through the process.  If you add additional water, grain, etc - you need to recheck.  The purpose here is not to allow your enzymes to accidentally denature if add them and your pH is way off.

If you add Amylo 300 to 150F mash, it will probably denature in about 15 minutes.  Same thing with the Bioglucanase, too hot at 140, will denature in minutes.

Summary:

Bioglucanase, 110-125F (at the start of mash) - This will denature during the heat up.

High Temp Alpha Amylase - Add it anytime during the heat up, after the beta glucanase.  If you do get up to a boil, you can add a second dose of HTAA during the cool down, usually 180F is a safe temp, this way you ensure your enzyme stays active in full dosage.

Amylo 300 - BELOW 130F - You do not want this to denature, especially if you are fermenting on the grain - as this will provide additional conversion during the fermentation process.

In all cases, if you stick around 5.1-5.2 you should be fine.

Do you use this same procedure when making bourbons with corn, rye, and barley as well?