daveflintstone

My final reply to this topic.

New Zealand is not the only country where home distilling is legal. That is uninformed.

Listing additional bureaucratic requirements for licensed distilling does not invalidate the claim that the TTB DSP requirement is about revenue. It was in the beginning, it still is.

Ralph, I don't know who you're arguing with but you keep coming up with new ones more wacky than the last.

To wit: tobacco is addictive and there's nothing stopping you from growing your own. Your argument is a non sequitur.

To wit: removing or enacting laws to allow home distilling does not equate with a call for regulation, it equates to a call for deregulation and decriminalization, same as home brewing and wine making. Your argument is illogical.

To wit: your "it's ALCOHOL" "IT'S ILLEGAL" emphasis is nonsense and that argument a fallacy.

A DSP permit comes with no training requirements, no educational requirements, no professional licensing requirements, no competency requirements of any kind. It does come with filing and tax requirements. I guess that's what makes you such a Professional.

The TTB is not roaming around trying to pinch home distillers and the actual applied criminality of home distilling is on par with possession of small amounts of marijuana. IT'S ILLEGAL. And the law is an ass.

Debating the merits of an onerous prohibition and trying to convince others of it's uselessness is both constructive and worthwhile. I AM NOT A CROOK^TM.

I was very pleased with the work randymosherdesign.com did for me.

He was terrific to work with, A++ highly recommended!

There is no prohibition of home canning, but if you do it incorrectly you will harm and even kill everyone who consumes the canned food. How's that different from what you think the prohibition on home distilling is supposed to prevent? In home distilling, the distiller is the consumer, that's the whole point.

Revenue, revenue, revenue only. That's it. Home distilling has a very long history in just about every country on earth. Your information on the dangers of home distilling are incorrect and misguided. The illnesses and deaths from moonshine during Prohibition were caused primarily by poisonous additives added to give the hooch more oomph. What home distiller is going to add embalming fluid to their product? Of course taking a bath is not illegal, despite the obvious dangers, just as home distilling should not be. Climbing mountains by oneself is not illegal either. Taking care of one's own medical problems is also not illegal. And anyone who ever built anything and had it inspected knows that some code inspectors are some of the biggest idiots around; my inspectors didn't know their ass from a fire rated door.

I have a permit, I pay the taxes, I file the paperwork, and I think home distilling should be legal.

"It is not as costly as you think, especially if you are making very small amounts and not selling the goods you produce." How in the world does getting a DSP permit to produce alcohol in very small amounts and not selling the goods you produce protect anyone from harm? How is that different than producing distilled spirits in one's home without a permit? The only difference is the paperwork and taxes, not safety. If you're against people evading burdensome alcohol taxes just say so, don't pretend saving people from themselves is the reason for the home distilling prohibition.

By the by, what I'm against is what I see as undue government intrusion, not any fellow forum poster. It really gets me in a tizzy; I think I'll have a drink. (that I made! )

OUCH...again

Cowdery:

Re-read the topic....Nothing was mentioned anything about the term "straight bourbon whiskey". We aren't trying to change terms, but apparently you are trying to add new ones to peoples questions.

Next.....

On the contrary, you are trying to change terms, specifically you mentioned "oak container" and "new" and "used" barrels.

Cowdery makes an excellent point of making what you want and not trying to shoehorn it into existing definitions.

Sent in application 3/29/2010

Approval - 5/05/2010

5.5 weeks total.

Stop the contest, I think we have a winner.

Who care's? Let me think, maybe the TTB or State revenue agents.

I personally see nothing wrong with what you said, but anyone on any forum should be careful. No one ever knows who might be reading this or any other forum.

Just a thought.

Do state revenue agents really snoop around looking for home distillation? Truthfully I do not know because there are none where I am. I think they spent all the state money on tsunami warnings. The TTB though, as far as I know, does not have the staff nor the inclination to bother the very few (comparatively) home distillers. Anyone ever hear of something to the contrary? That would be a true waste of resources if it occurs.

I think you may have misunderstood this site. The people here are considering starting a legal distillery, or are allready distilling spirits legally. These people would never consider doing anything illegal. Keep this in mind when making your next post. A person wanting to start up a business can learn a lot, a person engaged in illegal activity can learn a lot also, if you get my drift. (Just a Thought)

I think the phrase "going commercial" implies a licensed distillery. I think the original poster understands this site. I also think many licensed and soon to be licensed distillers did indeed consider doing things illegally, and also did them. How else to experiment with distilling and gain experience? I did it, I know many others who did it, and who cares.

I'm not aware of any rise in horrific accidents or injuries related to home distilling in the countries that allow it; protecting individuals is definitely not what the current U.S. ban on home distilling is about. I am, however, aware of over 200,000 bathtub related injuries yearly. I propose neighborhood communal bathing structures, duly licensed and inspected, where innocent people can be properly supervised by trained professional bathers.

Dave..what system did you buy? Or did you create something on your own?

I have a Titan 1800 from ultraTec. It's inline after a 3 cubic foot backwashing carbon filter and a dual tank water softener.

I have an 1800 gpd RO. An inline tds meter is very inexpensive and very useful. I was told by the manufacturer that anything below 10 was considered purified water. Mine currently reads either 0 or 1 . The membranes aren't that expensive, so I'll probably get a new one if it goes up just a little, though I'm rather hoping that's at least a year. The pre-filters should be changed if the pressure difference before and after the filters increases more than 10 psi.

I'm all for making products for less, but you're going to get nowhere with your definition challenges.

The intent of the definitions of oak container and new barrel are clear. Your interpretations are not pushing the envelope, they seem almost silly. Making products in non traditional ways does not equal trying to bamboozle the TTB. I've had the TTB send a bond back for correction because one page was scanned at a slightly different resolution - and you want to argue an oak container doesn't need to be made of oak?

gawd, I hate the term "reach out". Why oh why does it burn me so? I wish I knew, until then I may CONTACT someone about it. or maybe CALL or WRITE them. Goodness knows it can be helpful to TALK to someone. If I see someone struggling in the ocean I will definitely reach out to them. safety first.

You are not kidding, these are expensive thermometers.

I bought from ICL Calibration Labs (who I highly recommend as very customer service friendly). The thermometer ended up being $243.

They did offer me a calibrated digital thermometer, but I didn't want to spend the $570 at this time.

It is: Dostmann Model 370 with Pt-100 sensor,

Watertight, Min/Max, -100/300°C, 0.1

Resolution, HACCP tested. Supplied with NIST

traceable, ISO/IEC 17025 accredited report of

calibration at 32, 122 & 212°F and service

case.

I also got my hydrometers from them, $201.50 each.

I look in the regs and didn't see anything about using a digital thermometer when gauging spirits.

Is anyone doing this?

I see this one http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Glass-SAMA-Thermometers/4353 and it looks good to me.

What thermometer are you using for gauging?

Terrific information on air driven pumps.

Now...what compressor are you using to run it? I don't know much about compressors, but what the sales people and interweb tell me is that most I see are not continuous operation, they stop and start as the tank empties and fills. That doesn't seem too convenient, but I don't know if it matters.

Any info on a suitable compressor to run an air driven pump like the ones in this thread?

I know for a fact that the guy who panned your contest does not even own a distillery and has never made a commercial spirits product in his life, let alone competed in judged spirits contest. Please continue your good work and promotions of artisan vodkas, rums, and other spirits. We need people like you building interest in artisan products. Not all of our small industry's products are world class yet but those of us who do own distilleries work hard every day to make our products better and your contests help!

Looks like someone won a bronze medal. Congratulations, and perhaps you should get another detective, your current one doesn't seem so accurate. Methinks I know who this is anyway.

With a question like "Do all competitions give out awards to almost every entry?", it's quite obvious I have not entered any competitions. It is a valid question. To the vast majority of people, a bronze medal would mean 3rd best, a silver 2nd best, and a gold, the best. When several medals of each are awarded, clearly that is not the case. When 42 rums are entered and 39 receive medals, it seems more a celebration of the entrants than a tasting competition. I see nothing wrong with that, I was curious if all competitions were similar.

Contact one of the international flavor companies. I'm sure they can assist you, if you're mysterious country's rulers will allow it.

thanks for the link.

So out of all the entries, only 3 received no medal. That's like the bowling competition when I was a kid, where everyone was guaranteed a trophy. I didn't discover until years later that I had not actually "won" that trophy on my shelf. I still kept it up there.

I'm going to assume that no medal means completely unpalatable, a bronze medal means tolerable, a silver medal means OK, a gold medal means good stuff, and the winner is great.

Do all spirits competitions give out awards to almost every entry?

There's no way I could drink more than one, or possibly two, cases a week.

We use a simple 12V Diaphram type and have been pumping 194 proof for over a year. It is rated for alcohol and fuel. Coop

Are you sure your pump is rated for alcohol? I was going to buy one then I saw this in the operation manual:

CAUTION: DO NOT use to pump flammable liquids. Never operate the pump in an explosive environment.

Arcing from the motor brushes, switch or excessive heat from an improperly cycled motor may cause

an explosion.

Anyone have a link for the results of the recent 2010 rumfest?

okey dokey, I guess I won't use a Home Depot heat gun!

What performance improvement is the tunnel type machine over the regular heat gun?

sorry for asking again, but what means 100 # ? or maybe is a problem in my computer and I can not read the # sign?

wikipedia is your salvation:

Usage in North America

Mainstream use in the U.S.A. as follows: when it precedes a number, it is read as "number", as in "a #2 pencil" (spoken aloud as: "a number two pencil"); however, when it follows a number it is read as "pounds" referring to the unit of weight, as in "5# of sugar" (spoken aloud as "five pounds of sugar"), or the number of hits a webpage gets (written as "my video on YouTube got 345# today"). The first form is more widely used by the general population while the second form is more specifically used in the food service and grocery/produce industries, or other fields where units of pounds (as weight) need to be hand-written frequently or repetitively.

I like mixing in a cube container, the ones around 300 gallons. Has anyone found a large, accurate scale to weigh 2500 lbs + ? I consider accurate to be 1/10th lb. The floor scales I've seen are accurate only to 1/2 to 1 lb.