tl5612

Was she negative about the outlook for start-up financing, or negative about your idea/plan, or negative about your financial projections? Or all three? I don't know how much you have or are trying to borrow, but you can start up a micro distillery on a shoestring. While you will still need quite a good chunk of working capital, this might be a better route to start off. You could buy a reasonably priced Iberian / Moonshine still (make your own?). Use plastic totes (to start off with). Use gravity/hand pumps to move liquid around. Keep costs right down. There is nothing wrong with starting very small, and this is a great way to test the market. How do you really know how many bottles you can expect to sell? Why not partner up with a local micro brewery, and use them to make the wash/wort, while you focus on the distilling? Catching some of their market in the process?.... If they have the space, you could even set up in/alongside their building. Perhaps partner up with an independent and popular restaurant/bar and join your distillery on to their business? A kind of distill pub. Maybe locate on/nearby a massive local tourist attraction (if there is one), and aim mainly to take a slice of that market? The point I guess I'm trying to make is that you need to be adaptable. Highly adaptable. Your plans might change ten times before things finally get going. And there are always going to be hurdles (a lot of them, and they usually involve more $$$), you just have to find the best solution and get on with it. I would also say (not being from the US) that your boom in micro distilling is not likely to make things easy: being another one of hundreds of start-ups. I would certainly work hard to differentiate myself from the others, finding an alternative route to market to ensure long-term sales. As for the loan. It will be much easier to get once you can show a bank a set of accounts and a small profit.

Am I right in assuming these industry experts told you to get an 18 hectolitre still (~500 US gallon)? Not sure if you're aware, but stills smaller than this are now getting licences in the UK (this is if you're N. Ireland).

I'm guessing you're from Ireland, and not the US? If you are, it would be worth looking at St George's Distillery in the UK http://www.englishwhisky.co.uk/ , I think they are using an 18 hectolitre still. Rather than White Dog etc. they sold their under-age whisky as some sort of aged 'Eau De Vie'. I would say it is certainly a niche market. Maybe read about Kingsbarns Distillery in Scotland and their (very long) journey to funding. London Distillery Company is starting up on roughly £350k: £250k outside investment for 30/40% I think (it was on a crowdfunding site, so this info is freely available) and £100k asset finance. That said, I do find your original question fairly bizarre. If you really have $500k to invest, surely you already have an understanding of investments/valuations and don't need to ask a forum?

extra price seems to cover their snazzy packaging.

one supplier said that a manual labeller can be adjusted to accommodate a taper (i'm looking to label the saverglass neos [dry fly, lovejoy etc].) this involved something like grinding down the roller (depending on the shape of the bottle) and then re-aligning the reel after each label application. quite tedious and time consuming. ... to be honest, i am leaning towards a different bottle now. anyway. thanks for the help as usual.

Interesting request seeing as most Scotch barrels are used Bourbon barrels from the US. Why not use old Bourbon barrels? Once these barrels have been filled 4 times in Scotland I think their life is pretty much over. Or are you after one of these very tired barrels?

I've read the earlier posts on this forum about labellers, but wondered if anyone had any more knowledge on labellers for tapered bottles? I am after something manual and simple... the cheaper the better. But so far, my research has led me to believe that labelling tapered bottles can be a bit of a nightmare, unless you have a seriously expensive machine. Can anyone recommend a solution? Thanks in advance

those are HMRC's classes of spirit. so long as the neutral spirit is of agricultural origin (for human consumption), they couldn't care less if it is grain or cane etc. ...they just want their taxes... [which, if some of you are thinking of exporting to UK are: £26.81 ($40) excise duty per litre of pure alcohol. followed up with 20% VAT (sales tax) chargeable on selling price (including the excise duty). not sure how that compares to rates over in the US.] anyway... combine the two...and bingo we get neutral grain spirit . even Cargill calls it NGS.

the juxtaposition of the two nouns 'grain' and 'spirit' imply that we're talking about the compounded item. grain spirit. while both are grammatically correct, it is more alien for grain to come first.... we are used to seeing grain as a noun. and we are used to seeing neutral as an adjective, placed before a noun. hence, in the UK we call it neutral grain spirit.

grain spirit is a compound noun, made up of two individual nouns. neutral is an adjective. neutral grain spirit is better english.

thanks very much. love the idea of using levers! what is quite annoying is that i can find plenty of EC trade-approved, 300kg scales with divisions of 50g, but they are only certified to divisions of 100g (i am from the UK). so not sure if this is a suitable option... no doubt when i look harder, i will discover the more accurate scales are very, very expensive.

re-visiting an old topic, but Pete, i am looking into going down the proofing by mass route and wondered if you could shine some light on your scales set up (this might sound a bit stupid, but i trying to design something efficient and easy). indeed, i'll be working on a pretty small scale, and so this looks like it could work quite well. 300kg would be around the maximum for a bottling run. i've been looking at platform scales with an accuracy of 0.05kg, and wondered what you would recommend? i ask this mainly because i've noticed that these type of scales all seem to be raised about 15cm off the floor - and so practicality of lifting a full drum/tank up to the platform could be a bit tricky. do you use a forklift in one go (with forkliftable tanks of course), or have some other simple method? alternatively, i could get a cheaper set of scales that go up to 50kg (perhaps slightly more accurate than the big ones) and weigh everything in smaller containers, before adding to a standing tank... and just add it all up). any input would be great. thanks

i understand that working with - transferring and moving around - spirit at a higher ABV spirit is more hazardous due to the lower flash point. and that it is much better to work with an ABV with a flash point above room ambient temperature.... but when the spirit is actually in the pot, i don't see the difference between 40% or 55% ABV charge when it is being heated up anyway. perhaps i am being stupid, but i wondered if it is complete lunacy to use a 55% ABV charge with a direct gas fired still.... or in fact, quite normal, and no different to using a steam-heated still.

i know this is a very old topic... but i am interested in the reasoning for a 40% (and below) ABV charge when using direct fire (gas flame, direct immersion.... or perhaps this is only the case for direct immersion?!). would 55% ABV be significantly more hazardous than 40% ABV? with flash points at 23oC and 26oC respectively, there isn't too much difference (sorry for using Celsius.... but I'm from England). any views on this would be great. thanks

Thanks Mike. But unfortunately I'm based the other side of the Atlantic!

Thanks very much guys. The water bath and elements sounds very interesting! Ned, what is your experience of direct fire? Is it easy to set up? I guess you need venting (is this relatively simple)? Carbon monoxide alarms etc? I am a little cautious of using direct fire (and I think the Iberian stills can leak at the joints a little... before slapping on rye paste), but it could be my best option (depending on insurance, regulations etc.). Checked out your website, and your set up looks great!

Hi I am exploring the possibilities/solutions for heating a Hoga/Iberian-type still. Anything in the realm of 100 to 250 litres. Besides direct fire (gas etc.), or steam (coil), direct immersion, does anyone have any alternative - ideally 'explosion proof/intrinsically safe rated' solutions? I think a (very big!) heating mantle could work. Not sure about a custom oil/water bath... as don't know who would make one, or whether this would be better than a mantle. If anyone has some ideas, or thoughts that would be great. Thanks

to give it that something special. http://www.history.co.uk/explore-history/history-of-london/mothers-ruin.html

"Of course a lot of whisky history is fake or, at the very least, conveniently assembled. The idea of pure single malts – the “expressions” that distilleries slave over, and that whisky enthusiasts come from all over the world to savour and collect – did not exist until the 1960s. Before then, malt whisky was sold wholesale to be mixed with cheaper “grain” whisky (made out of wheat), and turned into blends. It was Glenfiddich, in a Don Draper-ish moment in 1961, that came up with the idea of distilling all that rain and Highland lore into something unique and expensive."

think it might be best to ignore the 'West Country Gin'

In Dr. Muspratt's "Chemistry, Theoretical, Practical, and Analytical," the following receipts from the note-book of an extensive distilling rectifier are given. "For a Fine Gin, take 960 gallons of spirit, hydrometer proof. 96 lbs. German juniper berries 6 lbs. coriander seeds. 4 lbs. grains of paradise. 4 lbs. angelica root. 2 lbs. orris root. 2 lbs. calamus root. 2 lbs. orange peel. Eighty or ninety pounds of liquorice powder are occasionally added to impart colour and sweetness. Plain or London Gin is made as follows : — 700 gallons of the second rectification. 70 lbs. German juniper berries. 70 lbs. coriander seeds. 3.25 lbs. almond cake. 1.5 lbs. angelica root. 6 lbs. liquorice powder. For the manufacture of West Country Gin, the annexed is the process given in Dr. Muspratt's work: — Introduce into the still 700 gallons of the second rectification, and flavour with — 14 lbs. German juniper berries, 1.5 lbs. calamus root, cut, and 8 lbs. sulphuric acid. This gin is much used in Cornwall, and particularly in the western counties of England ; it is also used in making British Hollands, and in that case is mixed with about five per cent, of fine gin, reduced to twenty-two under-proof with liquor. Our own examination of this variety of gin, usually called Plymouth Gin, tends to show that it is little else than a moderately pure rectified spirit, unsweetened, containing fusel oil, and flavoured with a little juniper and acetic ether. For Geneva, charge of still being 930 gallons of second rectification the proportions are — 84 lbs. juniper berries. 112 lbs. coriander seeds. 6 lbs. cassia buds. 4 lbs. angelica root. 6 lbs. calamus root. 6 lbs. almond cake. 0.5 lb. cardamoms. Plain Geneva.— For 950 gallons of spirit of second rectification, take 84 lbs. juniper berries. 84 lbs. coriander seeds. 2 lbs. almond cake. 2 lbs. orris root. 2 lbs. calamus. Another prescription for making Geneva, and one which is much esteemed a the following : — Add to 950 gallons — 14 lbs. grey salts, and 4 lbs. white salts. The rectification to be conducted with the usual care. At the second operation, add — 168 lbs. juniper berries. 74 lbs. coriander seeds. 12 lbs. almond cake. 8 lbs. grains of paradise. 8 lbs. angelica root. 1 lb. cardamoms. 2 lbs. calamus."

Smallest order is by the pallet for Saverglass. For 70cl (not sure about 75cl for you lot in the US) there are usually 960 bottles per pallet. Price wise, expect 850 up to 1000 euros (10 pallets +), depending on the bottle type. below 10 pallets, add 12% to the price. plus shipping/taxes etc. or whatever applies to you...

Interesting article.. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/55f1f4d2-5986-11e2-88a1-00144feab49a.html#axzz2JwTRqErK "Of course a lot of whisky history is fake or, at the very least, conveniently assembled. The idea of pure single malts – the “expressions” that distilleries slave over, and that whisky enthusiasts come from all over the world to savour and collect – did not exist until the 1960s. Before then, malt whisky was sold wholesale to be mixed with cheaper “grain” whisky (made out of wheat), and turned into blends. It was Glenfiddich, in a Don Draper-ish moment in 1961, that came up with the idea of distilling all that rain and Highland lore into something unique and expensive."

overfilled bottles/wrong size bottles... perhaps

more vacuum gins include: Sacred Gin Oxley Gin Cambridge Distillery (white label vacuum gins) Cream Gin