jessicajlemmon

Send me a photo please?

Evening,

I've got a fun one going on this formula. I have a formula that uses birch and sarsaparilla in a syrup that I submitted to blend with a vodka. We also make a 100% cane spirit and I wanted to get the same formula approved for use with that spirit, to allow flexibility. Well, they approved formula #1 after some tweaks. I copied that formula, and resubmitted it with the spirit types switched out. Now they want the GRAS for the birch and sars.... which I cannot find for love or money. I've emailed the FDA for help as well as the herbal suppliers but as of yet haven't had any success.

Does anyone have a stash of the paperwork for either of those ingredients or advice as how to skin the cat? I don't want to get my other recipe revoked by pointing out they already approved it once...

Evening,

I've got a fun one going on this formula. I have a formula that uses birch and sarsaparilla in a syrup that I submitted to blend with a vodka. We also make a 100% cane spirit and I wanted to get the same formula approved for use with that spirit, to allow flexibility. Well, they approved formula #1 after some tweaks. I copied that formula, and resubmitted it with the spirit types switched out. Now they want the GRAS for the birch and sars.... which I cannot find for love or money. I've emailed the FDA for help as well as the herbal suppliers but as of yet haven't had any success.

Does anyone have a stash of the paperwork for either of those ingredients or advice as how to skin the cat? I don't want to get my other recipe revoked by pointing out they already approved it once...

Yeah, we live in the snow belt too so it's twice and nice when the lake effect blows through! We're finally working on getting our dairy tank converted to a mash tun, but we gotta figure out what we need.

Hey there! We just opened up in Erie a few months ago, but we love the Pittsburgh craft scene. Good luck!

PM me, if possible.

Before you go making stuff you might want to be sure you're cleared with the Dept of Ag depending on your state. They can have a say as well.

Edit:

For PA, Feds was the long, but easy part. We had to do the following:

• Zoning - conditional use, township approvals
• Dept of Transportation - Driveway Permit
• Federal TTB App
• Building Permits/ Inspections/ Occupancy Approval
• State LCB
• PA Dept of Agriculture for the manufacturing side
• FDA Registration
• Health Dept for the tasting room, which also required getting the well registered with the state Department of Environmental Protection

The last one was the worst and literally strung us along for 360 days. Long story.

I second what Silk City said. We ended up much in the same boat. Our permit took 7.5 months for them to even look at it... we were repeatedly told "We'll get to it when we get to it" <paraphrased> 1 small revision and less than 2 weeks to get it actually approved. But we were so worried while we were waiting that we didn't do much work because we are leasing our space. 

We also waited to do our state submittal until we got Fed approval. That took from August to the end of December. Then the county Health Department which has taken from December until... today. (Being first in the county isn't something I'd want to do again....)

We thought we'd be open by Thanksgiving. We opened two weeks ago. 

Just wanted to share that after paying rent since October 2015, we finally opened to the public this past weekend! Happy to say there wasn't a dry glass in the tasting room from 1PM to 10PM. Even had a local supporter that we didn't know, stop by with a nice big custom sign for us.

We're still not 100% through the local governmental muck, so I'm stuck using disposable glasses for the time being  but no one really seemed to mind. 

We still have a lot of work to do streamlining our set up and adapting more equipment, but at least we finally have some income! 

After forever, we are finally in production!

I have 2 batches of sugar wash 'shine' (basically Rum) started. One was started on 2/25 and one was started on 3/1. Batch #1 didn't take off correctly from the start. Lesson learned about nutrients and pH... After I amended it, it finally started to pick up a little bit but has been sluggish at best. Batch #2 I doubled in size, and also juiced up with nutrients AND a much better yeast starter. It's 3/7 now and neither one is done with their ferment, they're just over half way. Unfortunately we were really planning to open this weekend but these sluggish washes are taking their sweet old time.

Some specs:

Batch 1 -

200 lbs sugar

100 gallons water

72g of Lavlin EC-1118 to start

250g of DAP added to the wash prior to pitching.

Starting SG = 1.09

The temp has been held steady around 80 degrees. We ended up putting circulating pumps in both batches to help keep them getting oxygen. #1 fizzled so on 2/28 I added 250g Red Star Dady and some calcium carbonate to correct the pH. It picked up from there and has been making ok progress but nothing special.

Batch #2 I refined my recipe a bit

350 lbs sugar

170 gallons water (to make 200 gallon batch)

5 lbs yeast nutrient blend

500 g red star dady started on a DME/nutrient blend.

Starting SG = 1.08

Batch #2 is already down to 1.03, where as batch #1 is at 1.04 as of today. They've dropped about .01 SG each day at a pretty steady rate.

So the question is... is this a normal ferment rate? I feel like it should be going faster . I understand sugar washes can be tricky, but we're not quite ready to go all grain yet with our equipment. Unfortunately, I already broke my pH meter, and the replacement won't be here another day or two so I can't tell if they've crashed or not. THey were both around 4.8 the last time I was able to check. Should I expect them to make it to 1.0 without adding more nutrients? They're both still fizzing away like a lazy river (when the pump isn't on).

I do live in NW PA, so the place is on the cool side, but we've kept heat on the fermenters. They've both been on pump cycles to keep things rolling which definitely seemed to help. I started with the Lavlin because I hoped it would perform better at the lower temps. I switched to the dady because I knew it would be a workhorse once I was in a pinch.

And finally... how big of a no no would it be to just run the damn stuff if it gets down to 1.02 or so for this round.

My brain is fried. Any insights would be welcome. Thanks!

Hi Denise,

Where in PA are you located? We're just getting ready to fire up our operation in Erie, PA.

Thanks!

Yeah, it hasn't been ideal. We're doing this all out of our own pockets as well. Nothing like being a poster child for the 'worst case scenario'

It took us just over 8 months. Submitted Dec 21st, 2015, got it August 25th, 2016. Once they finally looked at it, there were a few clarifications I had to make, then they had it approved in 2 weeks. I did a lot of nagging once we got past the 6 month mark.

Ok, thanks! Those were the results I was coming up with, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on a deal! Every penny counts at this point....

Hi guys, just an update. There was a ton of great info shared here... after I resubmitted. We decided to nix the general premises for now, and the permit went through just fine. After waiting 8 months for them to actually look at it, it got turned around in 2 weeks after a small set of clarifications....

We're currently shopping for a filler as well (that we will need soon.) Can I ask where you're seeing the one for $355? I find the unit but at a higher price, when i look.

Thanks for the heads up. If you're still looking for sources, I've been eyeballing this place: http://www.sandymushherbs.com/

I haven't ordered from them yet, though. But they have a great list of hard to find exotics, from the looks of it.

I'm sure it's too late to hop on this wagon, but I'd be interested in some as well. I started some artesmia absinthium from organic seed a couple years ago and now our yard is infested with it...

Update, just got our DSP yesterday! Had to do one round of revisions, and everything got turned around under 20 days after that.

We have a tasting room/bar but it is out of the bonded area. Due to the size we were bonding the main production area so we could have flexibility. I'm not sure we *need* the General Premises unless we want an area to store bulk booze out of bond.

In the TTB review questions, they asked about if and where we have a DSP "general premises". Our facility is on the small side and from what I can see, that area is not required. I'm not sure if it is worth establishing space within our layout or not? Any advice? I'm working on getting these questions turned around ASAP since it's taken so long for them to look at our application.

Submitted 12/21/15. They just looked at it and sent questions this week: 7/26/16.

Well over 200 days and we're not done yet.

Just curious, what testing agency did you use? We're in need of the water testing as well.

Can anyone refresh me on what kind of Health Department stuff we may have to deal with? It's been a good while since we've talked to anyone in person, and all the info is getting muddled up. It was my understanding that distilleries had it easier than breweries to some degree, since we're essentially making sanitizer.

Just wondering if anyone has run in to any memorable obstacles on that one.

Thanks for the clarification! I couldn't find anything in the state stuff that looked like it required the federal approvals, and vice versa, that's why I was getting confused.

I was thinking the same thing about waiting until the first of the year for the State application, due to the fee not being prorated at all. So it looks like I can get the Federal rolling and get my permit drawings submitted while I wait for the ball to drop.

Is there any way to check the average wait time on the State permitting? I had no idea it could go as long as 10+ months!