Rich Morgan

I consulted on this very same concept some years back in South America. Your single biggest problem will be producing a food grade product from a industrial plant. The main factor will be the compatability of the materials (metals etc) in the process line. Most concerning would be the presence of lead in the distillate path, through the condensors. Also, depending on what the entrainer they were using was, the may be residual traces of these highly poisonous chemicals (benzene, cyclohexene or pentane) in the system. It is fair to say that any equipment used during and after the denaturing phase would have to be junked, although not normally poisonous, the denaturing agents are very potent to taste and practically impossible to remove once in the final product. On a more positive note, the building, services (water prep, boiler, waste handling, raw materails handling) would be most suited to you mission. Just scutenize the plant, pipework, pumps, tanks and vats (oh and the stills :-) before.. This is what we did in Sounth America. rich..

Be very careful of 'wild' junipers, there are about 20 cultivars that I am aware off. Only 1 is suitable for Gin, and that is Juniperus communis subsp. communis var. communis (known as the European cultivar). From what I know, the US grows mainly Juniperus communis subsp. communis var. depressa. Although almost identical, I know that the main UK Gin distilleries will not accept the var. depressa berries, as they state they are too astringent. I import only var. communis from Scotland and Italy. I know a couple of US Distilleries are using var. depressa with excellent results, so the UK experience may be unfounded, they pioneered the stuff (please note I did not say invent). Ironically, Junipers for Gin should not be used fresh, the general rule is they need to be 'aged' for at least 6 month, preferably in wood. We used old oak wine barrels with the head knocked out and turned into a lid, an airtight seal is not required, in fact opening them up once a month helps to stop them sweating. If picking your own, make sure they have started to shrivel on the tree first, to reduce the water content and helps prevent spoilage mold in storage. Fresh junipers (you know they are too fresh when they macerate up with a green/blue rather than yellow tinge, impart an astringent/green/leaf sap quality to the Gin. Aging appears to allow this compound to break down into less volatile chemicals. Juniper Berries if picked fresh and stored correctly, will age and maintain their Gin quality for up to 2 years. Junipers sold for dairy, cooking & food use, the opposite applies, the fresher the better. The rest.. I would be very surprised if you could not get the coriander seed in the US locally, as well as the lemon and sweet orange peel. Bitter orange peel is only available from Spain. The nutmeg, mace, cloves, white/pink pepper and cardamom are only grown in the tropics, mainly India and Sri Lanka. As you need so little of these, again you should be able to source them locally (take a trip to Little India in any major city, these are all very common ingredients in Indian cuisine) The rare ones like bitter almonds, Cubeb berries, Grains of paradise, sea mint, etc are almost impossible to get reliably, and I challenge anyone to identify their benefit in a good gin, they are more an issue of tradition, rather than essentials. Always buy whole, never powder or ground, and crush your own.

Hi Coop, I wish it was that simple. We buy botanicals from 3 suppliers, as no one here in Australia offers the full range, and if they do, sometimes the quality of each batch varies greatly. Gin formulations are highly subjective and proprietry, it took me about 12 months and over 400 trials to get the spec right, for two reasons; Gin is not Gin, there are many types and sub classes of Gin, you need to understand the market you are hitting (predominatly mixers, or straight drinkers) For instance the new Hendricks is considered by most Martini drinkers to be too aromatic, but fine for a G&T. Pick a gin you like and emulate that. The flavour statement in every batch of corriander and juniper varies greatly depending on the season, origion and freshness. We buy 200kg lots of juniper three times a year, and we blend from each, trying to get some consitenecy, sort of a solero system, adding at the back and working through. Junipers store brilliantly, if the conditions are correct. No so for corriander, we now have a reliable source of locally grown, so I can be sure of the seed quality from batch to batch, but even then we allways trial a new crop. I have scoured the world for pre-packed botanicals, but they do not exists (probablyf for the reasons I have stated above). I have found a number of poor escenses, but using them would disctate your product being a compounded, not distilled Gin under EU law, not sure about the US regs in this space. Gin is actually hard work to get it perfect, but when it is, its phenominal. Happy to ask any questions at all except what is my formulation (apart from 2:1 juniperto corriander) :-) rich..

We make our own base as well, from wheat. In fact we make our final vodka first, and send some of this to macerate and re-distill.

Yes, agreed. This was my point.

Absinthe has always been a subject of interest to me, after all it is the holy grail of every craft distiller. I have collected (and GC/MS tested) a number of absinthe's from all over (with the exception of the recent US arrivals). I ponder the following; I think there is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest that alpha-Thujone (the active ingredient in wormwood) is psycoactive Absinthe is usually made by one of two waysMaceration of the botanicals, then distillation and subsequent colouring (like a distilled gin), lets call this a distilled absinthe Maceration of the botanicals, then bottling (like an infused vodka), call it a compounded absinthe [*]Distilled absinthe is considered the more tradditional and better product, the compunded version I found to be very rough and far too astringent to be drunk with any ammount of sugar. [*]As alpha-thujone has a boiling point of 201C, I can not see how it would carry over in a distilled absinthe. Considering its molecular weight of 152, the chances of it forming either a lower boiling point azetrope that would boil off sooner is also unliekely. [*]I suggest that good distilled absinthe's contain little or no thujone, and it is the cheaper compunded absinthe that does contain thujone. [*]I have several compunded and distilled absinthe's that support this point, but I also have two tradditional French absinthe's from the old Combier Distillery that have over 30mg/L of Thurjone. So how do they do it?

Cleaning Protocols We use a local winery cleaning product called 'CleanSkin'. It is alkaline based and organically approved. AiRD are the manufacturers at: http://www.airdchemistry.com/ Follows is the protocol we use for fermenters and stainless stills, hoses and pumps. We do not use an alkaline agent on the copper stills, I will post that protocol later. Hygiene Protocols Stainless steel: Eco-Sustainable protocol This hygiene procedure for stainless steel and other accepted wine storage contact and associated surfaces involves using a 2 step method with interposed potable water rinsing. Step 1 - Cleaning the surface, and then, Step 2 - Disinfecting the surface. Surface wine soils A volume of hot water (70-60°C) is circulation pressure sprayed over the acidic soils, whereby over a short period of time much of the acid soil (predominately wine tartars), is degraded and dissolved into the hot water which attains an acid pH. A final process of detail cleaning of any remaining degraded tartar and colour using a reduced quantity of alkaline material in a hot aqueous solution in a circulated pressure spray is applied. In this process, as in the conventional method, the commencing pH of the alkaline solution is reduced by the acid soils. Refer to CIP-All wine acid soils 1 - 50mm depth Material for surface disinfection Surface disinfection is executed with the use broad spectrum sanitising liquid as part of a circulated cold aqueous solution, pressure sprayed over thoroughly pre-cleaned surfaces to eliminate microbial pathogens before re-use. Refer to SIP-Clean Surfaces No wine soils-surface hygiene re-established This occurs where a surface which had been previously cleaned has been left unused and exposed for a period of time and has to be hygienically refreshed by removing incidental organic soil, off-odour or microbial pathogens before re-use. Refer to CIP+SIP-Fine bottling tartar and wine films. Material for cleaning and disinfecting wine and organic exterior surface soil and film A biosafe, peroxyalkaline detergent powder in a warm-hot aqueous solution to detail clean and sanitise these surfaces without odour in a single process. Refer to CIP+SIP-Wine and exterior surface soils and films <2mm depth. The following charts are offered as a guide: CIP="Cleaning" in place (system), SIP="Sanitising" in place (system) CIP - All wine acid soils 1 - 50mm in depth Product option HOT WATER Frequency Each time after surface is soiled Preparation 60 - 70°C Application Circulatory pressure spray Contact time 15 - 30 min. Rinse Not required Product option CLEANSKIN Frequency Follows the use of hot water Preparation 2.0 - 5.0% of Hot aqueous soln. 60 - 70°C Application Circulatory pressure spray Contact time 15 - 45 min. or until clean. Rinse Cold potable water SIP - Clean surfaces Product option LINVASAN or PERCITRA Frequency After cleaning before re-use Preparation 0.75 - 1.25% of Cold aqueous soln. Application Circulation pressure spray Contact time < 5 min. Rinse Not required

I am not sure on the exact US regulations, but the British, EU and ISO standards dictate that hydros must be re-calibrated every 12 months. I would have them re-calibrate now, as you will never know for sure otherwise. Always get them re-calibrated as a set. Another tip. But a lower cost set of 'working' hydro's and 2 point calibrate them yourself from your Thomas masters, as, hydros have a nasty habit of hitting the distillery floor too often. I would rather drop a $20 hydro than a $200 master.

Hi Coop, I assume you are referring to growth during a ferment? I have always followed the basics; The vessel must be of a sanitary design, hence I am not big on wood fermenters. Clean everything, with lots of hot water. Few bacteria will establish without an organic substrate. If its clean thats most of the battle. I believe as an industry we have become too dependent on chemical sanitizers, in lieu of good cleaning practices. We always steam clean after every batch, and leave the vessel clean and dry before the next run. We will CIP caustic every couple of batches to clean out the hard crud. We follow this with a citric pacification rinse, then hot water rinse. As a rule, we do not chemically sanitize. Steam tends to do a better job, and its compatible with our organic processes. I firmly believe the best way to prevent bacterial infections is to 1) ensure the environment is not to their liking 2) drive them out through competition.We tackle the environment by watching the pH closely, and tend to run it as low as practical We try to establish a strong ferment as quickly as possible, and with a minimal lag period. Once the yeast is up, most bacterial infections struggle to take hold. [*]Ensure a speedy complete fermentation [*]Once fermentation has completed, move to distillation as quickly as possible. The most vulnerable is stagnant wash. I am happy to post our cleaning protocols if it helps.

Absolutely agreed !

If I understand your question correctly, the answer would be maybe . The problem with wild yeasts is that some exhibit 'Killer' or Allopathic tendencies, and some do not. Killer or Allopathic yeasts contain enzymes and bacteria (there is debate in this area still) that produce poisons that kill or retard the activity of other strains, but not themselves. This phenomena is very common in a lot simpler plants. It allows one organism to dominate another, even if its numbers are less. The trick with wild ferments is the interdependence of these killer strains, their interaction behalves differently every time. Most killer activity occurs during occurs during the initial 'lag' or aerobic phase, and hence by the time the yeasts get down to doing the deed, its a very different makeup of strains. This is why a cultured yeast (most are killer) will dominate any ferment even if there is a strong presence of wild yeasts (yes, the sheer number of the initial colony also helps). As to your point about back-set, I am a bit confused. Back-set is not the ideal medium to culture up a strain, in fact it holds very little to support yeast growth. Normally in back-set you see bacterial growth before a yeast growth as most spoilage bacteria are strongly allopathic, and back-set usually has a dominance of proteins which the bacteria love. Some of the allopathic enzymes survive the distillation process, and again will inhibit the wild strains. Old brewery's and distilleries that have reused the yeast trub (ie the Burton system) time and time again are effectively selecting out the stronger yeasts, that is, creating their own cultures. Even though these strain would have started as wild. There is extensive work being done in the UK beer industry to gene map and catalog all the wild and cultured yeasts, as some of the big breweries are noticing undesirable flavour shifts due to the long term mutation of the in-house strains due to the countless generations they have propagated. One brewery claims it has live culture that is over 450 years old. What they are really saying is that they have the great.g.g.g.g.g.g.g.g.g grandchild of something that lived 450 years ago. Typically the life span of a single yeast is 14 hours. 450 years = 246,000 generations !, thats a lot of mutation opportunity. What they are doing is DNA mapping samples from their museum bottles to see how bad it has got. This is naturally leading into the dangerous area of GMO yeasts.

I have to disagree here, the main distinction when we say Pot still is to draw a difference to a continuous still. Lets not forget that despite all the hoopla, 80% of the worlds spirits are made in continuous stills. Almost 60% of all whiskey is continuous stilled. The only difference between a pot still, an alembic (say a French pattern) or a pot still with a 30 plate column is the number of theoretical plates, and the reflux rate. I believe the key distinction of a pot stilled product is the fact that it is of batch or charge based process, hence, the impurities are removed progressively with each distilling operation (or plate), but the total amount of impurities is finite in the batch. No so with a continuous still.

Mike, While it is true that most the big distilleries have developed their own strains, and that these strains originated in the wild, they have been through a significant selection and culturing process. Involving countless generations of yeast propagation. I have worked in many distilleries over the years and of those using proprietary strains, most are all monotypic, that is containing only one species of yeast. Wild yeast inoculations as described above are typically polytypic and can contain over 50 different species. Most of these species are ineffectual and provide little input to the character of the final product but a number do. The challenge with wild ferments is unpredictability, due to the seasonal aspects of yeast, different wild ferments will have a different profile as to the makeup of the different species, in each batch. What is interesting is that you can create a complex wild ferment characteristic, but with the predictability of cultured (selected) yeasts, by mixing a number of cultured yeast together in the fermentation, or at different stages. This practice is being widely used in the Australia Wine industry with great results. I know of 4 Scotch distilleries and 2 Bourbon distilleries that use this technique. Whenever we say wild yeast, we really mean wild yeasts, as it can contain any number of species and strains. An interesting subject nevertheless.

I am sorry but most have missed the point. The title Master Distiller traditionally can not be conferred by oneself. It is a professional standing awarded by the governing guild or association. The term Master Brewer in the USA is strictly controlled by the MBAA, claiming appointment without passing the exams is a no-no. In the UK, Europe, Asia and Australia you need to qualify as a Master Distiller, not pluck it our of a Corn Flakes packet (I assume its Corn Flakes in the US??, Rice Crispies works just as well). My question to any Master Distiller would be 'who awarded you that professional title?' Ahhh... was it Kellogg's ?

Yes it was. Holstein's and Carl's traditional market include the fruit brandy distilleries of Germany and greater Europe, and stone fruit mashes produce a higher than normal EC level, so the catalytic converter was their answer to the new EU regulations on EC levels. Copper is good.

Chlorine is really only a problem with Stainless Steel, and long exposures at that. PVC, Polypropylene are fairly stable in low (around 10mg/Liter) Cl concentrations, so is copper and most other metals (except stainless). To keep the water clean 1) keep the pH as low as possible (without inducing corrosion), 2) maintain the Cl levels around 10mg/Liter, 3) keep out the sunlight.

Are Micro-Distilleries Abusing the Title of Master Distiller? In a word, YES. Some thoughts... Master Distiller is a title given as an attainment of professional experience, not that you are the Head Distiller, they are not the same. Many large Distilleries will have a number of Master Distillers and one Head or Chief Distiller. I have been a professional distiller for over 22 years, mainly on the UK. The term 'Master Distiller' is a hand down from the UK industry. If you attained a number of professional and academic qualifications you were awarded the right to call your self a Master Distiller, during my time with Seagram's this included; A formal degree in Science, specific to Distillation or Brewing Professional standing with the Guild (now the IBD) 5 years supervising and directing distillation operations Nomination and support by your professional peers The general opinion in Europe and the UK appears to be if you are professionally qualified, and have +5 years experience you can claim the title of Master Distiller.

Andrew, It depends on what you want to distill. Normally a pot stirrer is only required when there is a chance of the solids within the wash settling, and burning on the bottom of a direct fired still, or the mash solids are so high the same will occur on the steam coils or jacket (i.e distilling stone fruit mashes). In one instance I have seen burning occur in a direct steam situation with a cherry fruit mash. A stirrers effect boil-up time on a thin grain wash in a <1000 liter pot is negligible. Personally, unless you must have one for your mash type, they are a luxury. We took the option to install flanges (which we capped off) on all out pots so as to take a stirrer if we ever needed one.

Agreed, thats what I thought you were referring to. Expansion is a real problem here in Australia, we often get well over 60C in a car in summer. Last year I had some issues with heat striking on our Gin, and sent some small temp loggers out with the odd shipment, some came back reading a high point of 75C ! Found my heat striking cause ;-) Fortunately our excise laws state we can fill a bottle anywhere, as long as its consistent, and agrees with the label.

Interesting point. I have often argued this with the bottling line. What are your thoughts on headspace with regard to spirits?

Charles, agreed. I was working in Scotland in the late 90's when it all blew up over there. The trials we ran then (GC protocols for EC were not established yet) indicated that the 'leave it behind' methodology worked well. When I started working up our current vodka, I sent 30 or so commercial samples to an analytical lab we use for full GC/MS/MS profiling, so as to establish a baseline. What was alarming was the incredibly high levels of EC in some of the vodka's, suggesting that it is not being monitored in a lot of countries. Here in Australia we have very strict controls, but I believe there are none in the former USSR states. The lesson, never drink anything from a continuous still.

I love copper, why copper is good; Its proven, over 400 years of faultless service Its one of the best thermal conductors around Its stable, self pacifing and easy to clean It looks good, its tradditional It is essential in the fixing of various esters and volatiles during distillation Its easily recylable (not that you would !!!) Its stable under direct flame, and in the presence of most CIP agents Did I mention it looks good What I hate about copper; Its expensive, and getting more so because of the escalating world demand Its a bastard to weld It tarnishes Good coppersmiths are a dying breed, and few are entering the trade

I think this discussion is really about ethyl carbamate. Copper is a precursor to the production of the carcinogen ethyl carbamate. There are world standards to manage and lower the levels of ethyl carbamate, originally identified in the UK scotch industry. This debate created the incorrect perception that copper was the culprit, I quote the UK food standards, Research on whisky has shown that ethyl carbamate is formed during distillation and using the right barley varieties and distillation conditions are the key control parameters.As a result, since the early 1990's the Scotch whisky industry has taken steps to reduce the level of ethyl carbamate in whiskies by selecting barley varieties with naturally low levels of precursors of ethyl carbamate. Studies have also shown that copper catalyses the formation of ethyl carbamate during the traditional double distillation procedure used in the manufacture of Scotch whisky. If copper contact can be maximised early on in the distillation to promote ethyl carbamate formation from its precursor, the non-volatile ethyl carbamate is not distilled over into the spirit. The industry has gone to considerable length to ensure that the spirit is in contact with copper for as long as possible. For example, distillation of grain spirit is typically carried out in the presence of sacrificial copper. Likewise, a third distillation, as occurs in the production of Irish whiskey, will also help ensure that ethyl carbamate levels are low.

Jonathan, I just realised that you are planning to make rum. Rum production in a direct fired still will present a lot of coking problems, the heavy unfermentable solids will burn on the bottom of the still. You need to make sure your really clarify the wash well before distilling (centrifuge? look around for an old ex-dairy Alfa-Lavel centrifuge) Also, regular caustic cleaning is going to be required, be sure to pacify the pot after cleaning or your two year plans will turn into 2 months.

We have two 600L copper pot stills which are direct gas fired, switchable between pot and a full frac columns, plus a larger 2500L pot for stripping, again direct fired. Why direct fired? It is much cheaper to construct and does not need a boiler Organic production can not use direct steam, and jackets are less efficient We are not on town gas, so we need to use propane, hence efficiency is key Direct firing is traddional, there are many quirky (and beneficial) reactions that occur on the floor of the still with direct firing because the interface temperature is so high We make Cognac style brandy, so again traddition is important. Brandy production is France is regulated to only use naked flame.