delaware_phoenix

$10K is the minimum bond. It all depends on your production capacity in a 15 day period in proof gallons, your storage capacity in proof gallons, and the quantity of spirits (NGS or whatever) that are in transport to or from your bonded warehouse, again in proof gallons. Add all those numbers up. Multiply by $13.50. That's your bond amount. If you're doing any kind of aging at higher proofs, those numbers add up real quick. If you haven't already, mosey on over to the introductions section and tell us about yourself (think of it as your first bit of self-promotion).

I was poking around the web, and found the site for Loch Lomond Distillery (in Scotland, so perhaps the folks on the Grand Tour will pay them a visit). The following page discusses the basics of making scotch. They mention their whiskey pot stills, but also discuss using rectifying columns to (in effect) simulate the different lengths/heights of the swan necks. From this I gathered that a pot still with a really tall swan neck would perhaps produce a lighter whiskey? Anyway, their discussion seemed to dovetail with our discussion of pot still vs column and what that might mean for the resulting product. http://www.lochlomonddistillery.com/making-scotch.htm btw, I'm really glad we don't have spirit safes here in the US.

I'm not really a whiskey person, so this will probably demonstrate my extreme ignorance, but I thought pot still would not only refer to a batch mode of operation, but also the number of theoretical plates. An old alembic (or cognac still) has only one theoretical plate. I thought that it was the congeners (and their varied composition) that actually provided flavor to the beverage as well as defined it's class: the typical congeners in whiskey are different from gin which are different from rum, etc. If the output of a pot still is fed into a 30 plate column, it would seem that due to the separation processes you'd end up with vodka and not whiskey or rum or what have you. Am I missing something? (Probably yes, so someone can explain it to me.)

Maybe this needs a whole section of it's own, but since there isn't I'll post here. I know I'm always interested in books on distilling, how they made liquors in the "old days". Of course, it was better back then. I can't remember what I was searching for, but I ran across this book on books.google.com Chemistry and Technology - Wines and Liquors by Karl M Herstein 2007 (humm, actually 1935) New reprint. Reading on line seemed interesting. Apparently it's been republished in 2007 (about $30 from Amazon and B&N; more expensive other places). Edit: At Project Gutenberg, they have online a copy of Samuel McHarry's 1809, The Practical Distiller. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21252/21252-h/21252-h.htm And also Anthony Boucherie's 1819, The Art of Making Whiskey. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21592/21592-h/21592-h.htm

21 CFR 73.100 are the appropriate FDA regulations concerning use of cochineal and carmine. Interesting that they think the traditional methods of drying the insects is insufficient and that it must be pasteurized to prevent the presence of viable Salmonella. Only relevant if your dry your own bugs. An interesting article here on The Creation of Color in 18th century Europe. Discusses the techniques of Jean-Baptiste Pont in reducing the amount of cochineal necessary to produce a color. http://www.gutenberg-e.org/lowengard/C_Chap20.html Sensient Technologies looks like a manufacturer for the pharmaceutical industry. Looks like they have shades of carmine in the pink to purple range and cochineal extract in the orange to magenta red range. http://www.sensient-tech.com/pharma_sku_tablets/carmine.htm DD Williamson has lots of food grade colorants, but not carmine or cochineal.

The technology exists today to take those old yeasts (even if they're dead) and bring them back to life. If their DNA hasn't degraded it's pretty easy to replicate. And yeast spp. have been extensively studied being one the first living organisms to have their DNA fully analyzed. You're probably not far off from the time when you could call Lavalin or Wyeast etc. and order a custom made yeast for a reasonable fee. "Yes, a yeast with hints of orange and coriander and a delicate smoky undertone suitable to 14% abv in a sugar wash." The DNA sequencing capabilities are all there. It's just a matter of cost.

My comments on the consumer's opinion was a response to someone saying that because the consumer liked their products, that must count for something. By that reasoning, with Jack Daniels selling 7 million cases a year (according to this USA Today article from 2004), they're master distillers. I'm sure some of you might disagree with that. So I'm agreeing with you, that you can't use sales numbers or customer taste to lay claim to being a "master distiller". Since no one is around who can confer that title on you, perhaps we should use some other means to differentiate ourselves from the big manufacturers. We have to know what is better about micro-distillery products and be able to effectively communicate that to customers as well as potential customers. And while using easy terms like "artisanal", "craft distillery" sounds great in a newspaper article but what does it really mean? I'm not being antagonistic here, just asking questions.

Yes, but how many consumers really understand how their spirits are made? And since most spirits sold are from Big Liquor, consumers must be saying they're the real master distillers? Ditto for Big Beer, they're the real master brewers, right?

The TTB definition for vodka: This is probably not a traditional definition from the Slavic countries where vodka originated. And I suspect in the late 19th century they didn't have the fancy columns in use today. I don't know about Holstein, but I do know that a Carl still can be had with a traditional cognac helmet, so no column at all, straight pot still. From what I understand (from others that know much more than I), reaching 85% is relatively easy. Higher abv's are possible but probably not economical.

There's also little chlorine test strips (like pH paper) you can use to easily test the concentration in water.

Yes I remember. Too bad the workshop wasn't a week long This week I'm swamped, but hopefully by the end of it things will be less hectic. cheers!

Way too low. All the old texts (the few that have come down to us) discuss coloring at least at 120% abv and more typically at distillation strength. (I had this great message all typed in, and then went looking at a PDF at another site, and Safari crashed on me. Grrrr. So now you get this short message. sorry)

Thanks for mentioning the TTB Expo. I've been avoiding it, but I bet there's a lot of stuff to learn. I'll start looking into it, and we'll see.

Usually there are also Zoning Boards (or something like that; it may even be your City Council) and you can apply for a Zoning Variance. Also might depend on the exact kind of location, but I bet you can probably finagle things. It might require a public hearing. Probably easier than locating in a housing development.

The NY Farm Distiller law allows sales and tastings as well, but I don't think it's expected that the sampling room is right in the bonded warehouse. Ralph Erenzo would know more.

And there are others who'll tell you hibiscus should never be used to make a red absinthe. Just so you know.

I'm not a whiskey person, but I have to agree with Mr. Cowdery and Mr. Erisman. It's too easy for new distillery folk to get equipment, put up a web site and call themselves "Master Distillers" for the marketing cachet it carries with the public. Presenting this fledgling industry in terms of fancy web sites with Flash animation, slick marketing concepts, and the like sells short what we're trying do. And to me that's making authentic spirits without shortcuts, using the best ingredients (local if possible), without selling out. Being able to walk into a store and shake the hand of the person buying your spirits. And produce the best possible spirit that you can, that makes you proud. And if someone else does it better, well that's called motivation.

Hello all, My name is Cheryl Lins and I'm located in crumbling Walton, New York. It is here that I hope to establish a micro-distillery specializing in absinthe. I'm going to leave all the whiskies, bourbons, gins, vodkas and the like to you folks with your big equipment. I'm looking to start with a little pot still on the order of 30-35 liters. If my funding comes through I'll be able to get things really moving. Until then it's all discussion, getting the business plan (thankfully done), insurance, those bonds ready, and all of that. So far the TTB folks have been very helpful in explaining things, but perhaps if I spoke with more than one person maybe I'd get different answers. The New York State Liquor Authority however seems to want to be as opaque as possible. Anyway I'm really excited that there's a forum here. And I happen to see a few familiar faces here too. Hi Mr. Stone, Hi Marc, Hi Robert. <waves>