Copperstill

Proper design is the solution. Serpentine condensers are used in the Cognac industry and they seem to have it figured out. I'm not saying they have all the answers but they have been making the stuff since before the USA was a country.  For a 660 gallon still, its length is 214 ft with an inlet diameter of 3.5 " and an outlet diameter of 1.5". It is equipped with a breather to reduce pulsing.

Theoretically yes, but with a new still there are a lot of variables in the design you may not have agency over. If you are running a batch column right now I would say most likely yes the product will be different. I suggest you ask the still maker for samples of product made on the still for reference or if there is a distillery currently running their equipment that you can buy in the market. Its not perfect but it should help you better understand what is possible with their equipment. You could also pay to have someone with the still you want to make a batch to your specs. Are you carbon filtering? I always find that redox reactions during carbon filtering shape the final vodka(made from scratch) so much that I focus on that to develop my product profile. PM me if you want me to go into more detail on that.

Cheers 

I may have someone that would be a good fit for your project. Please email me bw@pb.company.

Cheers,

B

I like the idea of being able to buy affordable glass that is in 1.5 L size. I've often looked at clear wine bottle shapes(and prices) and wished I could use them.

I've tended to do something like this most especially if I have fermenters that are taller than they are wide (H:D ratio higher than 1.2). I've had problems with tall and skinnies with CO2 being forced into solution by the weight of that mash that putting the yeast under additional stress.

Particularly with grain-in mash I'm a fan of some agitation during the later stages of ferm. I've tried pump over but I think it's too stressful.

I've read that there can be an increase in congener production due to the raised osmotic pressure of mixing the cap back into the mash. Is that what you referring to when you write "too stressful"? So just to be clear the difference in your mind between agitation and pump over would be that in agitation you try not to break up the cap while in a pump over you flood the cap until it sinks and integrates back in?

Personally I'm interested in peoples opinions on the how it effects flocculation, attenuation, and osmotic pressure.

I've had talks with several distillers and brewers about this and I'm just curious and decided to take a poll. When fermenting with grain in who is rousing and who is not and why, and under what conditions?

cheers,

B

I was wondering if anyone has found a commercial pen that doesn't bleed when high proof is spilled on it? I personally use pencil for anything I need around spirit, but would like to switch if I could.

it would be great if this conversation could remain on the forum if at all possible.

i know there are quite a few who are interested in this conversation and would like to know more about copper stills etc.

thanks

I see that both Johns have already discussed the effects of copper on sulfur compounds so I’ll skip that. To my understanding the physical characteristic of the copper boiler/kettle creates very unique situations during still runs, in conjunction with high heat ,and acidity from the wine/wash. These conditions allows one the discretion of pitching heads back into the pot without a build up of these compounds through multiple still runs because again to my understanding the still is creating new compounds through the coppers catalytic properties, heat , and aromatic precursors that have formed on the surface of the boiler and the inside of the still. High heat also aids in the formations of guaiacols, and 2-phenylethanol which are found in pot-stills, but not significant quantities in column stills. Maillard reactions make furfural and desirable sulphur compounds. This all said I know that some of these reactions happen without the presence of copper, but IMO all copper Alambic stills are the way to go for barrel aged spirits.

I said that there are three places that I understand that reactions take place in the still here they are.

• boiler/kettle surface
  
• the transition where the vapor is volatilized out of the liquid mixture (reactions happen anywhere vapor, and copper are in contact really but are highly reactive during the transitional phases)
  
• the transition where the vapor goes back to liquid. I’ve read that the concentrations of fatty acids are affected by the output temp of the spirit, and it is my experience that this is true. In my opinion this allows one to shift the final flavor of aged spirit depending on what you what you are looking for.
  

Give me a call I'd be happy to talk with you about it. My number is in my info. That one thing you are referring to is volatile sulfur compounds?

Copper is required in only one place during the distillation process. My point was to communicate that building distillation equipment from solid copper is a waste of money. Think about the body of a pot still. Cut a cross section from that still wall and you have about 1/4" copper. Only the interior surface comes into contact with beverage alcohol....all of the rest of the copper will never see the spirits.

Just for the record. I can think of 4 places that the copper from a still affects the spirit 3 of which are in the still. Although copper isn't necessary for distillation it has a very positive effect on potable alcohol intended for aging. This includes under specific conditions the boilers(pots) affect on the spirit before it volatilizes hence why a full copper still is favored. I understand trying to be thrifty with money during a start-up but I personally I wouldn't recommend skimping on equipment that all your spirit is going to be made with.

OK food for thought. The commercial distilling industry has been around for at least 400 years, and everyone adds water to alcohol. Do you think in all that time people have never tried it the other way around? Why would the industry continue to make water additions to alcohol if there wasn't a good reason for it if especially if alcohol to water was much more convenient?

TL5612, your question regarding redistillation of GNS in Copper.......distilling in Copper doesn't make a difference...regardless of GNS or base wash. Yes, copper is required at certain points in the distillation process, but all-copper-everywhere stills are a waste of money. Period. Anyone claiming otherwise doesn't have a full understanding of distillation of ethanol.

Just to clarify your saying that distilling in a copper still doesn't mater if your distilling things other than GNS?

I have not seen your business plan but I know that there are two things you need more of: floor drains and capital.

LOL. I agree floor drains and sloped floors prevent huge amounts of time that otherwise is wasted cleaning when you shouldn't have to.

Have wanted to do that for a while. Please let me know how it comes out? As to the sugar addition depending on what type of still you are using you will have more options. For a pot I personally would treat it like wine and get it up to +/- 10% abv. I know this doesn't answer your question directly but hope it helps.

We have a Yamada and just love it.

One time I walked into a facility that I used to work at, and the guy on the prior nght shift had forgoten to shut one off. It had been pumping air all night, but when we took it apart there was no sign of damage. The pump didn't care that what it was pumping. Could you imagine what an impeller would look like are running dry overnight? That said don't try and move grape must with them.

The alcohol should always be added to the water when diluting (not the water to the alcohol), also as previously indicated both should be at the same temp. Very common for barrel aged alcohol to go cloudy if not diluted properly.

Were did you hear this? Doesn't this lead to more aggressive Saponification?

Hi everyone!

I need some help...

We currently have our casks warehoused on pallets with the casks on their ends. This system is great for moving the casks and for stacking them on top of each other.

But, this means that when we empty the casks we have to turn/roll the cask on its side and empty the whiskey into a stainless steel trough.

Without getting into details this is not an ideal set up. There are health and safety issues along with risks of spills or damage.

What I would like to do is pump the whiskey out of the casks. I have even seen this done! The process was simple... A tube or spear was placed in the casks. The casks was at a slight angle with the end of the tube in the lower corner of the casks. The pump was turned on and had enough pull to suck the whiskey out and into a large vat.

What I am unsure about is the type of pump to use. The set up I saw had a small centrifugal pump. But every centrifugal pump that I have used needed to be below the liquid level so it was "primed".

Has anyone seen this type of set up?

Yamata air pump works perfect. Self primming, runs off of compressed air, and you can run them dry.

I was wondering if everyone would list what it takes for them to make a PG of their new make spirit from scratch, and what it is? I thought it would be usefull for people to be able to get a rough agrigate to know if their are in the ball park whether they are already producing or are building a budget for the future.

Thanks,

CS

1

I was my hope this thread could be a visual reference to others besides my self when they decide to build a hose rack. Please shoot a photo of you drying rack and post it.

I would like to see some pictures of how everyone is storing their hoses in between use. When I worked in the wine industry I saw a bunch of variants on this that allowed the hoses to drain while in the rack. I just don't have the wall space to use that format where I am at right now. I am sure that I can come up with a solution myself, but thought that someone out there might have invented a better mouse trap. This not being an essential proprietary element to production I figured everyone new, and old could benefit from seeing each others take on how to do this.

Cheers,

CS

He isn't claiming a copyright, he's claiming a trademark, which he may have rights to in a narrow context, but no way he can prevent anyone else from using the term. I truly don't say this to bash you, Copperstill. I just think it's important to caution anyone who may think you know anything about intellectual property law, since every word you have written on the subject has been wrong.

It's 'copyright' and your statement about it is equally ill-informed.

thanks for the spell check...It you doubt my statement ask Ansley Cole at craft distillers I'm sure he can correct any error.

That's very crafty of Brown-Forman