Message me with your email and I can send some pics. And I make various liqueurs with my setup.

52 minutes ago, Pyrate said:

@glisade

Do you care about grounding and electrostatic charge?

And your Mixing Power is muscle only?

I love gravity too and also Not changing tanks/vessels if Not necessary. Do you have any safety meassures in place when you let spirit flow from a lifted tank to an other tank? Do you use hoses/pipes or do you just open a tap/faucet and let the stuff Flow into a manhole?

I don't worry about grounding. The drum should be grounded on the concrete or proofing scale. When on the wooden pallet, I still don't see much concern. But, as you say this is a stainless steel paddle in a stainless steel drum. So there isn't all that much movement and vapor being pushed up like potentially with a mixer, just muscle slowly sloshing everything around. I'm sure you could put a ground strap on it though and tie it to a set point when on the scale.

I just have a drum on a pallet and lift with fork lift or a drum directly on the forks. Depending on the size of the drum, I may strap it to the forklift. I use tri-clamp fittings from the bottom valve of the upper drum to flow or filter into the bottom drum. Right now I have a 100 gallon plastic cone bottom tank that's bolted to a mini-pallet in the air with the forklift. I am transferring the liqueur through a 1 micron bag filter into a 100 gallon stainless drum on the proofing scale. I strapped the tank to the forklift so I can tilt it forwards to get all the product out. All I have to clean afterwards is the tank and a few tri-clamp fittings.

I've done it like this for 5 years without any issues.

I use a ~400 liter stainless steel drum to proof and mix my liqueurs for bottling. It has a lid but yes its essentially open top and I just use a stainless steel pale to mix everything. Usually after multiple mixes, everything is uniform in about 24 hours. It sits on the proofing scale on top of a pallet so I can move it around later or onto the forklift if I need to filter it into another drum. I don't like using pumps to circulate or move spirit from drum to drum since you can lose product in the hoses and pump and then you have to clean everything after. If you have a forklift, gravity is more efficient with less clean up.

These coils are undersized for our fermenters but we don't need tight temperature control. We don't agitate, the fermentation is doing that for us in a way. I've also built some coils for cooling mash from coiled copper pipe you can buy at Lowe's. They sell it in a flat coil and you can just slowly unwind it and coil it yourself but the diameter of the coil would be better for a 55 gallon drum. We used something like this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Mueller-Streamline-3-4-in-x-60-ft-Copper-K-Coil/4742152 made a cooling coil with it and put it in a drum filled with cold water and pumped the mash through the coil into the fermenter.  

Check out: http://www.bubbasbarrels.com/cooling-coil

These are made for ~100 gallon fermenters. If you don't have the right tri-clamp fitting for your fermenter, you can buy the coils alone and make adapt them to fit your tank lid/manway. That's what I did with our 275 gallon IBC totes that we use as fermenters.

Here's a decent chart for what you need. Your 10% ABV wash would boil at about 93C while a 5% would be about 96C.

Also, buy "Whiskey: Technology, Production and Marketing". It's a great resource for understanding the fundamental science behind distillation.

We use the Saverglass Oslo 200ml bottles. Don't know how cheap is cheap for you but these are certainly cheaper than our 750ml bottles.

Many amari are re-distilled then colored. We have one that is re-distilled. In some ways, you can control the flavor better, like re-distilled gin. Think fruits to roots. Some of our liqueurs are also re-distilled then I use one botanical after distillation to try to create the color I want without introducing too much extra flavor or use something with a complimentary flavor.

I needed Dave's help with another distillery and it was the best advice I could have had..and it wasn't even regulations related! His knowledge is invaluable. Enjoy your retirement!

We put ours in these bags: https://www.brewinabag.com/products/the-brew-bag-for-kettles-app?variant=32593577377852&gclid=Cj0KCQjw78yFBhCZARIsAOxgSx2W8UMGYifZEGJ4sUvRO35vpLShvpQ0IVunmjvWDDmAzkoEnWEfuzgaAqkGEALw_wcB

then pull them out after the run. They all typically float so it's not hard grabbing them as the still is being emptied.

On my Snap 50, you go to Menu -> Measuring Units -> Alcohol -> Alcohol US @ 60F. Not sure if Snap 50 is similar enough to Snap 51 though.

I've had that same floc-like formation in some liqueurs. The floc forms from sub-micron particles that attract each other over time and form the larger floc blobs. My solution has been to filter, then fine and rack the liqueur then filter again. It doesn't come back after that and now the most I get is some slight wispy sediment on the bottom of the bottle. 

1 hour ago, SCLabGuy said:

Here's another angle to think about.

In order to use bulk beer as an ingredient in your distilled spirits product, you have to bring bulk beer into your Processing account.  I believe the CFRs only allow a DSP to bring in bonded wine from a licensed wine producer.  No mention of beer.

27 CFR § 19.402 - Authorized transfers in bond.

The IRC allows a proprietor to transfer and receive spirits, wines, and industrial alcohol as provided in paragraphs (a) through (c) of this section.

(a) Spirits. Bulk spirits or denatured spirits may be transferred in bond between the bonded premises of plants qualified under 26 U.S.C. 5171 or 26 U.S.C. 5181 in accordance with §§ 19.403 and 19.733. However, spirits or denatured spirits produced from petroleum, natural gas, or coal may not be transferred to alcohol fuel plants.

(b) Wine. Wines may be transferred:

(1) From a bonded wine cellar to the bonded premises of a distilled spirits plant;

(2) From the bonded premises of a distilled spirits plant to a bonded wine cellar; and

(3) Between the bonded premises of distilled spirits plants.

(c) Alcohol for industrial purposes. Alcohol bottled for industrial purposes in accordance with § 19.366 and subpart S of this part, may be transferred between the bonded premises of distilled spirits plants in the same manner as provided in §§ 19.403 through 19.407 for bulk distilled spirits.

(26 U.S.C. 5181, 5212, 5362)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/19.402

You can bring in beer, wort or a fermented wort as a raw ingredient into your production account without a transfer in bond. We do this fairly often.

2 hours ago, bluestar said:

Why do you think a colorant would not be allowed in gin? It would have to be in your formula, but gin can have any range of botanicals, and butterfly pea flower is just another botanical. There are no color requirements for gin.

I think the issue Pour Decisions was bringing up was solely with Butterfly Pea Flower, which last time I checked was not FDA GRAS. When I inquired about it a couple years ago, TTB sent me to FDA and FDA told me I would have to have it qualified for our specific use which seemed like a multi-months long process.... if not longer.

Not sure when you got your Ouzo formula/label approved but in 2018 they changed it from a liqueur to a distilled spirit that does NOT need to contain sugar any more.  A liqueur has to have at least 2.5 brix sugar.  Check: https://www.ttb.gov/public-guidance/2018-8-changes-to-class-type-designations-for-ouzo-and-aquavit

You may have to resubmit your formula and remove sugar and change the class type but then I would suspect you'd be ok with not having sugar in it.

OK, I could see that being an issue. If you're not using a digital printer, you may want to search for a larg(er) company that has a lot of experience. They may be able to tell you if a digital printer can do it better or if there's other issues.

I don't know of any label applicator that would do what you want. But to save some cost, I would just do all the front labels first then swap out the roll and redo the bottles with the back label. You'd still need to register the bottles correctly for the back label but you'd have to do that anyway if you had two applicators.

11 minutes ago, LuckyGuy said:

with a tapered bottle, I haven't found ANY cheap solution.   I have to hand label them for sure.   Once my production numbers increase, I hope I can find a viable solution that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

We use the bottle-matic for our tapered cylindrical bottle and it works fine.

Sorry if this is no help. But I would check with another printing company. Never heard of one that can't do alternating labels on a single roll. A digital printer will definitely be able to do this.

We had an FDA inspection and I'm pretty sure the agent specifically mentioned that was not allowed. We didn't have any animals in distillery but somehow it came up.

Davdear,

You really need to check your liquor laws in whatever state you're in. Every state/country/province/etc..laws may be very different so that it dictates your business model. So first you need to understand your local laws first.

For example: I'm in TN. We can have a tasting room and sell spirits but we can't self-distribute. So every bottle either physically or on paper has to be bought by our distributor first before it can be sold by us or any other retail store. We also can not ship direct to a consumer so no online sales unless we worked with a distributor in an another state. Make sure you don't confuse the fact that you can buy a bottle of wine online with you being able to sell to someone online.

If you can self-distribute that will save you money but may cost you a lot of time. The reverse is true when working with a distributor. So you have to figure out the laws to fold into your business model.  The biggest piece of advice I can give though when selling product to a liquor store or bar/restaurant whether it's direct from you or through a distributor: as much as possible, an owner/distiller/someone from your distillery should be there shaking hands and talking about your spirits to the potential buyer. A distributor sales rep will never sell your product as well as someone who has a stake or passion for the company.

You have to go to whomever controls your jurisdiction: county/city/state or all three to figure out if the space will meet code. For example: is it zoned to be a distillery, what will the fire marshal (if you have one) require in the space, will the different building inspectors be ok with your planned equipment and how it's heated/cooled, etc.. Most of the federal requirements are based on not having your distillery in a residence or connected to one. Your bigger concern about the space should be local requirements.

Do NOT sign a lease without a contingency that says if you can't become legal on local or federal levels, you can leave the space.

If you have another local distillery (or brewery) ask their advice on how they got started.

7 minutes ago, adamOVD said:

There is a discussion on here somewhere, that it is better to filter compound gins and barreled products through a cheap bag filter or something similar before running it though and clogging an expensive prebottling filter. I think the smallest micron those stainless filters go to is 5 micron, so maybe a 1 micron bag filter?

Yes, to the above. I usually pre-filter with 1 micron bag filters before going through the enolmaster. When they still get a little clogged, I use PBW and hot water soak and usually cleans them up good enough. Sometimes trying to force some pressurized water or air through them can help blow them out.

On 9/11/2020 at 3:55 PM, Rhody-O said:

Thanks, all. The parts are all clean and the pump motor is working--I seem to lose the seal in the overflow/vacuum chamber. I'm in the process of checking all o-rings and seals and getting better clamps for all hose ends. Joy.

Every time I start my Enolmaster I have to put own on the overflow container lid to seat the o-ring better. Once the vacuum builds up a bit, a couple seconds, then it's fine. I know some people also lose some suction from the o-ring on the little float in the overflow container, one person told me that put a little bean bag on top of it to make sure it doesn't move while bottling.

I have valves at each end of the filter housing; when I'm done filtering I just close the valves (with leftover vodka in housing) and put it away until next time.

Mine's totally manual (gate valve on the water input to the dephlegmator) but I use the head vapor temperature as a guide for my heads to hearts cut for my whiskey. I run a hybrid still with one plate.