Cleaning new copper/stainless still

[Pour Decisions]

New still is on its way and I'm wondering about its initial cleaning and then a regular cleaning regimen for it. I've scanned the related info here on the forums but didn't find exactly what I'm seeking. Most posts were related to an all copper still. Mine is mostly stainless but has a copper whiskey helmet on it. Most of the threads warned of using a caustic on the copper and suggested PBW . For the initial cleaning I was planning to do a rinse/PBW/rinse/citric acid/rinse/done and then perform a similar regimen periodically. Will this be enough to clean it out and passivate as well. Does this seem like a good plan for this setup? 

 

 

[SlickFloss]

PBW is a caustic agent, it can and will damage copper IF used unwisely and miscarefully. “Caustic” or “Caustic Soda” is a vernacular for sodium hydroxide. It can and will do the same under the same conditions. CIP is a functionality usually used to describe physical attributes of a vessel, but is also a vernacular term often used for the act of a caustic rinse (for actual soil removal), cool water rinse, light citric rinse, cool water rinse. A lot of people triple rinse. 

I would honestly take your head off cap the top passivate the kettle and the lyne arm and possibly even the condenser (who knows what that looks like) leave the copper as is but re CIP the kettle then do a sacrificial run with alcohol don’t need to go crazy into tails. CIP (what you have laid out is a CIP) and start ripping 

[Pour Decisions]

Thanks Slick. I've a few other posts where you've shared quite a bit of process info regarding cleaning etc and appreciate it. I like to keep my stuff clean and definitely will not allow any build up in there. The unit will have a CIP ball at the top of each column, the gin basket column and 4 plate column are not shown in that image but will exist. I like the thought of removing the copper cap and doing a good cip/passivation of the stainless parts. Think its ok to put the condenser and whatever small piping will fit into the kettle for a heated cip/passivation?

 

I plan to perform something like this as part of my ongoing processes but will remove the copper head when I do.

Copied from a post you shared some good in depth info:

Cool rinse Spray water

Cool Rinse recirculated water 

Hot Wash recirculated PBW

Hot Rinse Spray water

Cool Rinse Recirculated water

Hot Wash recirculated Acid

Hot rinse spray

cool rinse recirculated

 

To add - My test still has been nothing more than a 15.5 gallon stainless beer keg with some different columns used based on what I've been making. I've always hot rinsed after every run and have not ever had any buildup. I've ran a bit of PBW in it once or twice just to be sure there wasn't anything hiding in there, have never even done a citric wash on it. I just want to get a good solid SOP in place for this new unit to keep it in top shape for years to come.

[JustAndy]

The advice I would add is a regimented cleaning schedule only works when you are running a consistent product. Maybe you are planning to, but most small distilleries don't. We can distill pear brandy for two months without needing to use anything more than a brush and hot water, but distilling wine with sulfites requires refreshing the copper with citric after a week. Running rye mash might require using caustic if there is an issue with mash conversion, but bourbon never does. Unnecessary cleaning with caustic and citric will wear the copper. If you only wash your jeans when they are dirty they will last longer than if you wash them every week. 

[Pour Decisions]

I hear ya and yes we will be running different stuff. I don't mean a specific schedule per say, more so just want something in place so in the event a cleaning is needed, I have some documented process and chemical requirements with dilution quantities recorded so as to not unnecessarily add any wear to the material.

[SlickFloss]

13 hours ago, Pour Decisions said:

Thanks Slick. I've a few other posts where you've shared quite a bit of process info regarding cleaning etc and appreciate it. I like to keep my stuff clean and definitely will not allow any build up in there. The unit will have a CIP ball at the top of each column, the gin basket column and 4 plate column are not shown in that image but will exist. I like the thought of removing the copper cap and doing a good cip/passivation of the stainless parts. Think its ok to put the condenser and whatever small piping will fit into the kettle for a heated cip/passivation?

 

I plan to perform something like this as part of my ongoing processes but will remove the copper head when I do.

Copied from a post you shared some good in depth info:

Cool rinse Spray water

Cool Rinse recirculated water 

Hot Wash recirculated PBW

Hot Rinse Spray water

Cool Rinse Recirculated water

Hot Wash recirculated Acid

Hot rinse spray

cool rinse recirculated

 

To add - My test still has been nothing more than a 15.5 gallon stainless beer keg with some different columns used based on what I've been making. I've always hot rinsed after every run and have not ever had any buildup. I've ran a bit of PBW in it once or twice just to be sure there wasn't anything hiding in there, have never even done a citric wash on it. I just want to get a good solid SOP in place for this new unit to keep it in top shape for years to come.

You are on right track that process piping and condenser should be passivate and cleaned like rest of the still but I wouldn’t recommend placing anything inside of your kettle. Passivate on has two functionalities, the first is removing trap iron and other metals from the production process of making the vessel the other is creating a chromium oxide layer film over the inside of the tank. Allowing your vessel to sit up to three days from treatment dry seems to be the point of best return. Anytime you scrape the tank or use a brush on it or even touch it you compromise that film. Highly recommend to people starting out that they strive to get their inputs and their process to a point where they don’t need to do anything but hose until major cleaning is necessary. Depending on your budget Strahman (sp) hoses are incredibly handy for keeping a clean facility…. ozone is a stellar distillery resource. Will pay for itself in citric in no time. On top of other benefits. Re waste water and barrel sanitation and rinsing. Oh and remember you can reuse caustic well past the point it turns black. 

[Pour Decisions]

Second thought, I will not put anything in the kettle to be safe. I do have other tanks I can use for those ancillary parts to be cleaned and passivated in. Can you elaborate a bit on the ozone comment? 

 

[SlickFloss]

I kinda rambled a bit and jumbled some shit together so I’ll rambles some more….. A strahman hose is a brand name of a hose that uses a blending station to meet a water line with a steam line for variable hot hose functionality. They’re fucking awesome.
An ozone generating machine is an incredible distillery resource. Ozone (03) is an incredible oxidizer. Used heavily in the larger brewing sectors not as popular in large whiskey because of lot manufacturing practices and the tendency to sour mash in KY so culturally less important…. McClain makes a great one it will make either gaseous ozone for fogging or ozonated water. Ozone will oxidize and degrade into h20 and 02. It’s like a non acidic water with anti microbial properties. Can hook it up to CIP can use as a hose for spray downs can use to sanitize equipment  can use to gas barrels clean drains. Pu can use ozonated water in place of acid rinse in regular cips in between major cleanings. Won’t have same metallurgic benefits but anti microbial yes. The amount of money we’ve saved in citric so far has paid for the machine already we’ve had it a little over a year now. 

[Galapadoc]

What specific model of machine do you use to generate ozone for use in the CIP? Sounds like a good way to disinfect everything since we're very limited at to what chemical agents we can import into the Galapagos. Citric isn't a problem (because they classify it as a food ingredient), but everything else is highly regulated. Ozone is great because it breaks down naturally to water so it can go down the drain.

 

And just a heads up. I'm not sure what kind of PPE you're using when fogging with gaseous ozone, but keep in mind that it's super toxic to human tissue. We use it in ozonated water for wound care, especially for patient's with decubitus and diabetic foot ulcers, but you definitely don't want to be inhaling that stuff. It will do a number on your alveoli and over the years can lead to COPD.

[SlickFloss]

You are correct. it would be great for you specifically. You still need something to clean physical soil though, thats where caustic comes in. Manufacturers rec is to use in conjunction with Caustic for CIP, but you can do you! https://mcclainozone.com/products/

[Pour Decisions]

I just remembered I have a small ozone machine I picked up a few years back when i was more into car detailing. It is gas only but maybe I'll give it a test at gassing used barrels, never thought of that!

[A.S. Burkett]

I am a big advocate of using standard household vinegar or a 6-7% acetic acid solution rinse (they're the same thing)... I fill my pot ~50% full of the acetic solution and start the run with no water running through the condenser to allow the vapor the opportunity to fill and cleanse all the little nooks and crannies all the way through to the condenser's outlet.  *You will want to make sure that you have good ventilation in your work space.*

Once the vapor has ran for at least 5 min I turn on the condenser and let the condensed solution run through for another ~5 min.  A thorough double rinse with clean water will be sufficient to remove any remaining acetic solution, and then you should be ready to go for your sacrificial run.

Hope this helps.