Bourbon yield question

[Kindred Spirits]

I gotcha, its always interesting to see those non-standard pieces of equipment out there. I'm always eager to learn more.

3 minutes ago, SlickFloss said:

 I would fly anywhere in the country to run one of these and pay for the OH and labor of prep and clean up and source materials of the runs to try one out but I haven't gotten a response back to that. Would meet you there to do it brother we could make a vid!

If you ever get a chance to do it let me know for sure, I would love to join you. 

 

[Christopher ONeal]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:33 PM, SlickFloss said:

I don't believe it actually has active steam control to reciprocate I imagine that just happens from natural fluctuations in steam pressure of the two vapor streams competing for flow capacity. You can see what im referring to in some of the pics there's a Lyne arm that connects both stills with a T in the middle that feeds the bottom of the shared column. I have mentioned multiple times to Rusty that I would fly anywhere in the country to run one of these and pay for the OH and labor of prep and clean up and source materials of the runs to try one out but I haven't gotten a response back to that. Would meet you there to do it brother we could make a vid!

Hopping back in to confirm that there is not active steam control to reciprocate. There are individual steam controls on the input side for the two kettles, but we have not seen enough difference between the kettles (levels after each distillation are always similar) to warrant much messing around with that.

[Christopher ONeal]

On 1/16/2024 at 1:14 PM, SlickFloss said:

I have some questions about your gauging. When was try last time your AP was serviced and calibrated? Do you use your AP for multiple product lines (i.e. finished liquors/cordials, flavored or sweetened products, finished whiskeys [wine finishes, other spirit finishes) etc. Do you follow the manufacturers reccomended cleaning protocol for your AP

Sorry I disappeared for a few days, we had a hard freeze here which throws the entire city into chaos. Thank you for the questions!

Our AP is serviced and calibrated quarterly. We had some issues in the summer with inconsistent readings but that seems to have been due to a faulty batch of batteries. Our local AP rep loaned us a benchtop unit for a few weeks to confirm our readings and once we got a new pack of batteries from a more trusted brand we had no discrepancies. I do a weekly cleaning according to manufacturer's instructions, and we do a daily deionized water calibration.

The AP is used to guage all of our spirits, but only the spirits themselves, and we have no flavored or sweetened products aside from our gin and cucumber vodka. For both of those, we use the AP only on the neutral spirit blend before adding botanicals and the final distillate, not on the maceration.

 

On 1/16/2024 at 1:14 PM, SlickFloss said:

As for your hydrometers, are they certified and accurate? How old are they? Have you integrity tested them against each other?

The are certified, and all but one are 5 years old. We have not tested hydrometers against each other, as we do not have overlap in the measurement range except in our parrot hydrometer, which has full range but little accuracy. We use it primarily to watch for spikes or sudden drops in proof.

On 1/16/2024 at 1:14 PM, SlickFloss said:

Using city water in the depgh is a very very very inconsistent input. Especially if the SOP is run it wide open. Colder media in requires less flow than warmer media, same flow rate of a colder media runs a deeper neg thermal load than a warmer one. It is possible to run a depgh too hard but I don't think thats the case here (you would notice this as a problem more in trying to maintain 100% reflux, but thats almost what it looks like you're doing)...... with that last parenthetical in mind is your still able to hold 100% reflux at all? 

We are able to hold 100% reflux with the steam dialed well down at the beginning of a run and with the steam fully open at the end. I have experimented with loading the plates and drawing off the heads, and usually end a run by loading the plates again to try and get the best out of the tails that I can. With the variable temperature of the input, we use the dephleg temperature guage to determine how open the flow is for the majority of the run, aiming for ~190F for the hearts, which for us gets a couple hours of ~140 proof spirits.

 

On 1/16/2024 at 1:14 PM, SlickFloss said:

Finally, how's the water you cook with?

City water run through dechlorinating filters (we have checked with the city and confirmed that chlorine rather than chloramine is the agent used). We have also had our water independently analyzed, I can send anyone who likes a copy of that.

[Christopher ONeal]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:33 PM, SlickFloss said:

I have mentioned multiple times to Rusty that I would fly anywhere in the country to run one of these and pay for the OH and labor of prep and clean up and source materials of the runs to try one out but I haven't gotten a response back to that. Would meet you there to do it brother we could make a vid!

Fancy a trip to New Orleans? We are definitely running a gen 1 still (he mentioned during his visits several improvements he made to subsequent iterations), but I'm sure we'd be happy to host you.

[SlickFloss]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:58 AM, Christopher ONeal said:

Fancy a trip to New Orleans? We are definitely running a gen 1 still (he mentioned during his visits several improvements he made to subsequent iterations), but I'm sure we'd be happy to host you.

 

On 1/19/2024 at 10:58 AM, Christopher ONeal said:

Fancy a trip to New Orleans? We are definitely running a gen 1 still (he mentioned during his visits several improvements he made to subsequent iterations), but I'm sure we'd be happy to host you.

Hey fuck yeah! Don't mind if I do! PM'd

[SlickFloss]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:50 AM, Christopher ONeal said:

Sorry I disappeared for a few days, we had a hard freeze here which throws the entire city into chaos. Thank you for the questions!

Our AP is serviced and calibrated quarterly. We had some issues in the summer with inconsistent readings but that seems to have been due to a faulty batch of batteries. Our local AP rep loaned us a benchtop unit for a few weeks to confirm our readings and once we got a new pack of batteries from a more trusted brand we had no discrepancies. I do a weekly cleaning according to manufacturer's instructions, and we do a daily deionized water calibration.

The AP is used to guage all of our spirits, but only the spirits themselves, and we have no flavored or sweetened products aside from our gin and cucumber vodka. For both of those, we use the AP only on the neutral spirit blend before adding botanicals and the final distillate, not on the maceration.

 

The are certified, and all but one are 5 years old. We have not tested hydrometers against each other, as we do not have overlap in the measurement range except in our parrot hydrometer, which has full range but little accuracy. We use it primarily to watch for spikes or sudden drops in proof.

We are able to hold 100% reflux with the steam dialed well down at the beginning of a run and with the steam fully open at the end. I have experimented with loading the plates and drawing off the heads, and usually end a run by loading the plates again to try and get the best out of the tails that I can. With the variable temperature of the input, we use the dephleg temperature guage to determine how open the flow is for the majority of the run, aiming for ~190F for the hearts, which for us gets a couple hours of ~140 proof spirits.

 

City water run through dechlorinating filters (we have checked with the city and confirmed that chlorine rather than chloramine is the agent used). We have also had our water independently analyzed, I can send anyone who likes a copy of that.

You are all good bro! I will answer bulleted below!

-Loud and clear on the AP keep that thing clean and calibrate it often! Most people don't! That is a precision lab instrument that makes its way onto the floor so maintenance and calibration are doubly important for it. Another tip is to make sure you are using it properly, a lot of people don't get accurate measures off them and its great to keep in mind that your rep will run you through how to use it anytime they're onsite, always great to just demo for them how you use the equipment before they try to teach you anything because they may miss later mistakes addressing earlier ones.

 

-Loud and clear on this one as well.... How do you gauge final spirits then? Hydrometer?

 

-Loud and clear and sounds good. May be a good idea to certify it against the AP for the proof ranges you're in. Also reiterating to all employees SOP of reading and recording and converting temps, as well as standardize y'alls gauging protocols (where you round, how many decimals into a calculator pre rounding, how the temp is actually taken etc.).

 

-Whoever is managing the system you're drawing from likely has to publish or make available too you tests on a relatively consistent basis (like quarterly, annually, monthly, etc) you can ask for that from them at any time. It is always a good decision to test against that which it looks like you've done already and thats good! Water is not consistent, seasons, operators, equipment, all get in the way of consistent water. You can't analyze it enough. Know your ingredients.

 

[Christopher ONeal]

3 minutes ago, SlickFloss said:

-Whoever is managing the system you're drawing from likely has to publish or make available too you tests on a relatively consistent basis (like quarterly, annually, monthly, etc) you can ask for that from them at any time. It is always a good decision to test against that which it looks like you've done already and thats good! Water is not consistent, seasons, operators, equipment, all get in the way of consistent water. You can't analyze it enough. Know your ingredients.

Yeah we run independent tests because our municipal water is famous for having good numbers at the testing site (near the station) and much worse numbers at point of delivery once the water has made its way through miles of decades old pipes sunk into what is essentially swampland.