Wort cooling pipes, copper?

[PeteB]

I need to increase the capacity of my shell and tube wort cooler (wort = mash with solids removed)

I have a lot of copper piping that I could easily convert to cooling wort, but wondered if there are any bad reactions with copper!

Thanks

Pete

[Scott @ Twenty2Vodka]

Can you bend it into a coil for cheaper than $69?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/copper-immersion-wort-chiller.html?utm_medium=feeds&utm_source=google&gdftrk=gdfV24959_a_7c1306_a_7c6184_a_7c6680&gclid=CO2D4sz31rUCFUws6wod9AoAuQ

[Rickysa]

From our class w/ Virtuoso this past weekend, Cu was touted as superior wrt wort as it helps remove some nasties like sulfides, etc. Best to use Cu over SS anywhere the wort comes in contact w/ metal.

[Jimmidaboot]

Copper is really the way to go.

[TeelingWhiskeyCo]

As a general rule brewers would not use copper as a wort cooler because of the copper's disinfectant properties could effect fermentation. But with distillers wort not being boiled I think you can get away with it. I have use a bit of copper to cool wort and not had any issues. but I can also see the logic around not using it.

[Rickysa]

Just thought I'd add this...from "Distilling Fruit Brandy", Josef Pischl, 2011: "Nowadays copper is the only material considered for use....Copper also absorbs various substances (hydrogen sulfide) which would otherwise find their way into the distillate"

Got the book today, and thought I'd pass along his opinion...

[Artisan Still Design]

you can do stainless nicely, but you need more surface are for heat extraction

Steve

[PeteB]

Just thought I'd add this...from "Distilling Fruit Brandy", Josef Pischl, 2011: "Nowadays copper is the only material considered for use....Copper also absorbs various substances (hydrogen sulfide) which would otherwise find their way into the distillate"

Got the book today, and thought I'd pass along his opinion...

Is this quote talking about wort cooling which is before fermentation, or the still.

Copper is very efficient for heat transfer but I was thinking of the chemical reactions that would occur.

I have a spare large copper heat exchanger that I could dismantle and clean, that is why I asked the question.

[Rickysa]

Pete, pretty much all of the above...any chemical reactions mentioned are actually beneficial (per his opinion, of course )

[nabtastic]

Pete, I may be wrong but I'm pretty certain that the hydrogen sulfide is created in the still from the heat on the yeast. That's the impression I've been under, but please correct if I'm wrong. I wouldn't think that copper would have any detrimental effects to our wort since all the homebrew kits (that one is probably way too small for a distillers use) are made from copper. It's also a lot better at heat exchange - I'd go with bending your copper.

Seeing as this is 5 months old - what option did you go with?

[stevea]

Whew - what a bunch of rumors.

I used to consult for the brewing industry, and have far too much technical background to not interject.

There is nothing at all wrong with copper wort chillers, and they are common in small-scale breweries and work very well.

Copper at a few ppm is not only not antiseptic, but it's required as an enzyme co-factor.

There are relatively few sulphides in fresh wort. They are mostly developed as yeast (and others) reduce sulfates (from water source) into sulfides during fermentation. In any case at wort temps and sulphide levels it's a complete "don't care" if you chill with copper or stainless facing the wort. What is clear tho' is that copper has 25X better thermal conductivity than stainless (( 400 vs 16 k -W/(m.K))) and you will need a vast amount of thin stainless to accomplish the same cooling as copper. Aluminum tubing (200 k -W/(m.K) will do nicely too, but it's brittle and can crack. There are some other practical ways to chill wort, like drop towers, but copper or aluminum coils are a top choice.

In the late 1990 the FDA started getting snippy about copper beer fermenters (not chillers) adding too much copper for human consumption. But the fermented wort is lower pH (more copper dissolved) and remains in contact with copper fermenter for a week or even two, rather than an hour at a higher pH. Also consider that copper dissolved into wort is not going to make it through a still, so even a copper fermenter for whiskey/NGS is likely a "don't care" condition.

Copper is a great and practical choice for a wort chiller - go for it.

[PeteB]

Thanks for all the discussion. Steva. I knew copper had a much higher thermal conductivity than stainless but 40 X . No wonder copper takes so long to heat up before welding or soldering. It is currently winter on this side of the equator and my original heat exchanger is working well, but come summer I will clean out and add connect the copper exchanger.

[Natrat]

Yay Stevea, you saved me a lot of typing.